Reply to: Going rate for developers in India

[tim123]

I've only bad experience with offshoring to India. A company I was with decided to work with TCS/Tata. They sent us 4 or 5 guys who were given 2 months to learn our software - no tasks, just getting up to speed. After that, the developers on the project wrote tests on the software, like "what does this module do", "how would I add this functionality to module X". They failed pretty much across the board, and by wide margins in most cases.

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I don't think that I could sit down and learn the internals of a system in two months book study (assuming two months implys a pretty complex system).

The ONLY way that I find it possible to learn a system is to be asked to work on it to perform a real task.

It really is very hard taking in information, if you have nothing to guide you what information in the forest is the important bit.

(I did work with one person who had a photographic memory and took everything in with a single read, but these people really are a one in a million find.)

I agree with you about East Europeans though.

tim

[NotAllThere]

Generally, they find it difficult to say no, and to admit they don't know something. When I had to take some Indians from a supplier, I telephone interviewed all of them first. I did a technical interview, asking increasingly difficult and obscure questions. The ones who said "don't know" to a few, but otherwise did well, I hired. They were great. They also seem to be very conscious of hierarchy. I recall telling one guy to do something, and he kept saying he'd have to check it with his boss. I eventually pointed out that his boss worked for me. Then he did the task.

I also find the habit of them shaking their heads (in agreement) when you talk to them, is somewhat disconcerting. One chap nearly got thumped by a large Dane, who didn't know it was sign of assent.

[thunderlizard]

That just sounds like negligent management to me. I will not be giving them 2 months without a whisper until right at the end!

You have to know a bit about the Indian culture too. They say "yes" to everything all the time e.g. "did you really understand that?" or "Are you absolutely sure you can build me a social networking site in 3 days?", and they will never ask questions on their own initiative. Your company should have known better than to let them get on with things without any help. It is getting better, but 200 years of Raj inferiority complex takes a while to shake off.

[d000hg]

I've only bad experience with offshoring to India. A company I was with decided to work with TCS/Tata. They sent us 4 or 5 guys who were given 2 months to learn our software - no tasks, just getting up to speed. After that, the developers on the project wrote tests on the software, like "what does this module do", "how would I add this functionality to module X". They failed pretty much across the board, and by wide margins in most cases.

From what I gather, Poland/Russia/China have much greater skill as coders than India. That's on average of course, I do know some very skilled Indian guys.

[thunderlizard]

thanks for (some of!) the responses.

I could have made it slightly clearer I - I'm looking to buy the services, not supply them.

Interesting about Eastern Europe - must say I never considered it for a moment (mainly because I don't have any contacts there). I imagine their standard of English is at least as good as the Indians, and only a couple of hours time difference would be an improvement. Any recommendations gladly received!

I think I'll go with the £22/h company and explore Eastern Europe for next time. The guy is probably laughing all the way to the bank and leafing through top-of-the-range tuk-tuk catalogues, but I'm not under so much cost pressure that I want to risk the real bargain basement, and it's nice to feel valued!

[Bumfluff]

A client of mine was recruiting permies in India, same role in UK would of been about £55k, in India they were offering about £13k to £14k and no pension, that was for a developer with around 5 years experience. The ones we did recruit I was very impressed with.

[rs1969]

@thunderlizard

which agency have you gone with? how did you apply for the job in India?

[Ardesco]

I'm that way inclined too.

Are we talking wives or code here ??

[SueEllen]

I've found Eastern European companies to be much higher calibre and cheaper overall than India.

I'm that way inclined too.

[NickNick]

Transylvania

I've found Eastern European companies to be much higher calibre and cheaper overall than India.

This has been my experience as well when using developers from the Czech republic, Transylvania and Bangalore on the same project.

[DimPrawn]

Namaste

What's the going rate for a good software developer in India?

C#, Java, Oracle, SQL Server sort of thing.

I'm getting quoted £22/hour, which isn't as "much cheapness" as I'd hoped, but I'm inclined to go for it because I know this chap's good.

& yes I know the risks and drawbacks, but I have managed Indian teams remotely before (but my client was paying for them directly) and can handle things well enough.


Shukriya,
tl

The way things are going £22/hr will be more than a UK developer.

I believe that overall, when everything is taken into account, offshoring a project saves on average 15% over the equivalent onshore project.

I've found Eastern European companies to be much higher calibre and cheaper overall than India.

[Diver]

5th columnist !

[NotAllThere]

Try Bangladesh. They're much cheaper.

[rs1969]

Namaste

What's the going rate for a good software developer in India?

C#, Java, Oracle, SQL Server sort of thing.

I'm getting quoted £22/hour, which isn't as "much cheapness" as I'd hoped, but I'm inclined to go for it because I know this chap's good.

& yes I know the risks and drawbacks, but I have managed Indian teams remotely before (but my client was paying for them directly) and can handle things well enough.


Shukriya,
tl

are you planning to work as a software developer in India or going to hire someone from there? the rate is quite good for someone working there.

[BrilloPad]

Namaste

What's the going rate for a good software developer in India?

C#, Java, Oracle, SQL Server sort of thing.

I'm getting quoted £22/hour, which isn't as "much cheapness" as I'd hoped, but I'm inclined to go for it because I know this chap's good.

& yes I know the risks and drawbacks, but I have managed Indian teams remotely before (but my client was paying for them directly) and can handle things well enough.


Shukriya,
tl

splitter! I hope your software burns in hell.