Reply to: Job has turned out differnt than it was described

[b0redom]

In future i will make sure i get a job description before i start and have what the job entails, what they use and the structure before i start!

Good luck with that - especially as a contractor. In a recent role, I was hired as a PERL monkey, and ended up virtualising an OS/2 (anyone remember that) legacy infrastructure. In another, I was hired as a Solaris Technical Architect and have somehow morphed into a Windows/AD manager.

Since I started contracting, I don't really give a tulip anymore as long as they pay my invoices.

[DodgyAgent]

Contracting has been something i have been thinking about for quite some time , this i can assure you is not my sole reason for deciding to start contracting but it has helped me decided to leave the job.

I have helped the company with my ideas of what i think they need to do to bring the department up to speed and on a level playing field with the rest of the industry, what technologies they should look into. i have helped them recruit and train staff, set up and built new systems to deal with the problems they had and got rid of some of the problems and outdated stuff (and bad habbits) being used. i have made the department more approachable and been comended by a number of the clients of the company for my work.

i can definately take positives from this - i gained valuable management experience and helped make the place run better -i gave it my all and worked damn hard and tried to get them to see there are other ways of doing things however i could only work with what i had and with the massive workload and its hard to change people's minds who have been doing the same thing for years.
In future i will make sure i get a job description before i start and have what the job entails, what they use and the structure before i start!

ta for all your comments

Your plans and ideas need to be agreed with senior management (who have the authority), this gives you control over your own destiny. If they do not agree with your plans then you need to understand why, only then can you see whether there is a role for you within those plans. As for job specs there is only so much these can do to help. It is better that you are more appropriatly skilled at interviews to understand what they want, whether this fits in to what they are doing, and in general whether everything they say they want, are doing, have done stacks up to scrutiny.

Otherwise bale out!

[oracleslave]

i gained valuable management experience

Just a pity you didn't pick up any punctuation or grammatical capabilities.

[Joe1978]

i have no intention of suing anyone or filing a grievance or anything like that at all. The job hasnt worked out - i will be leaving and behaving in a professional manner and hoping that when i do everything is ammicable. i mark it down to experienc and move on.

i havent left the company before now because i hoped things would get better and i didnt want to saty at a company for just a couple of months. i raised my concerns on a number of occassions with management and wastold things would change - they didnt. my fault for being naieve.

Contracting has been something i have been thinking about for quite some time , this i can assure you is not my sole reason for deciding to start contracting as a knee jerk reaction but it has helped me decided to leave the job.

I have helped the company with my ideas of what i think they need to do to bring the department up to speed and on a level playing field with the rest of the industry, what technologies they should look into. i have helped them recruit and train staff, set up and built new systems to deal with the problems they had and got rid of some of the problems and outdated stuff (and bad habbits) being used. i have made the department more approachable and been comended by a number of the clients of the company for my work.

i can definately take positives from this - i gained valuable management experience and helped make the place run better -i gave it my all and worked damn hard and tried to get them to see there are other ways of doing things however i could only work with what i had and with the massive workload and its hard to change people's minds who have been doing the same thing for years.
In future i will make sure i get a job description before i start and have what the job entails, what they use and the structure before i start!

ta for all your comments

[tim123]

There is a form of unfair dismissal called "constructive dismissal". This is when you are effectively made to resign by the way you are being unfairly treated by your management. Quit, and tell them that you will be suing for constructive dismissal.

The law has changed and you cannot make a claim for Constrictive Dissmissal unless you have raised the issue using the company's greviance procedure and reached a deadlock.

And TBH, if his complaint is that he isn't doing the job that he interviewed for he isn't going to make that complaint stick after 10 months. It should have been bleedingly obvious that this was a problem after 2 months and raised it then. Waiting until 10 months and then complaining is not going to win the judge's favour. Of course, if an employee complained after 2 months he'd probably find himself out the door with no rights to use an ET anyway, but this isn't a reason for waiting until you do have the rights before complaining.

As Dodgy has said. I think that part of the problem is with the employee. Just why did he stick with a job, that wasn't the one he was told he would be doing, for so long?

tim

[dude69]

Ditto. I've been contracting since 1988 and have never had to provide a reference (and ignore requests to do so)

And if you need one they are fairly easy to arrange with a sympathetic person

[weemster]

Are you sure in your mind that you want to go contracting or is it just a reaction to your current situation ?

Also what field are you in ?

[DodgyAgent]

Ok folks here's the story i have 7 years experience in my industry and 6 years in my current sector.
Last year I left a large company after 3 years because i wanted a change and didnt want to become part of the furniture so a year a go i left and got a job working for a very small specialist company.
I had sent them my CV on the off chance and they invited me for an interview.
they saw on my CV i had experience in a field they wanted to go into, how would i like to join them set up there department be a manager and run the show? definitely i thought great opportunity for me, I mentioned I had little experience managing people (supervised a small team of temps but that was it) they said fine i could learn and be trained i asked what technology they had and told them what the industry standard was and what i had experience of using they said they had an old system but where definitely going to update it ......

10 months later the job has turned out totally the opposite to what i was expecting and what i was told -it turned out they already had a department in place and I wasn't going to be setting up anything (well i say department it was 1 person who has been there 10 years over worked and stressed out but unwilling to change) i only got a job description a month ago! no new technology (access and excel still being used for EVERYTHING- they use paper and biros and tippex FFS), i have had no management training and very little other training and have had huge ammounts of work and therefore stress piled on me and to top it all of they tell me i am not living up to there expectations and that i needed to be re-trained and have some responsibilty taken away from me and would i mind signing an agreement to this effect....(they told me this AFTER i completed a huge project for them on a ridiculous timeline to keep their fave client sweet)!

I have told them they are way behind the times and my experience at the other companies i have worked at (in the same industry|) has been very different and that i made it clear to them at the start what my experince and background was.

basically i have wasted a year of my - although i have got some experience as a manager i feel if i stay i will go mad so enough is enough
i am now going to quit and having taken advice about my skills and experience and what is available i am taking the plunge into contracting

however i have a few concerns about what will happen when i hand my notice in
1) they will make my notice period hell
2) they will try and "sack" me so it looks like i was dismissed
3) My reference will be tulip as i "did not live up to their expectations"


as i am going in to the contract world should i really be bothered about these things or just think f**k em and wait, do my time til my notice is up

You have been there now for a while, so you should have a picture of the overall problem. When you are running a business you are regularly confronted by staff throwing up problems. That is fine, however why dont you write a blueprint to solve whatever the problems are and within that blueprint show clearly where you would fit in, and how you would contribute to improving things.

There are so many people who can see no further than a problem, and ironically if you are not helping to solve that problem then you yourself are 99% likely to be part of that problem.

[Archangel]

If it helps I have never had to provide a reference for a gig I have got. When I was wet behind the ears I provided them to every tom dick and Harry, but within a fortnight I had learnt all about agents looking for leads

Ditto. I've been contracting since 1988 and have never had to provide a reference (and ignore requests to do so)

[Ardesco]

BTW take notice Wilmslow, this could be you in 10 months time....

I would suggest getting everything you can written into your new shiny permie contract, training, holidays, etc, etc.

[Wilmslow]

Really sorry to hear about your bad experiences - sounds very familiar to me as well.

If market was bouyant I would say to just resign and move on.

However, the market, from my perspective is really rocky at present. I am not getting the calls or emails I used to despite registering on the usual websites.

Three month notice? Market may get better, or worse during that time.

If really dire, just resign and accept your first contract anywhere you can get it. I am assuming you are flexible on location??

Agents do not seem to want references - I have not come across one, even seasoned long term ones in banks don't seem to get referenced either! Don't let reference be the decider. However, if there are any colleagues you know and trust, often a call to another colleague is reference enough

[Joe1978]

Thanks for the advice lots of sound advice and food for thought - i think i will just have to see how it goes and hopefully they will behave in a professional manner (that's certainly how i intend to) and we can discuss the terms of my notice, references etc, etc.

Apologies if this was the wrong place or topic to post feel free to delete Mods

[Ardesco]

If it helps I have never had to provide a reference for a gig I have got. When I was wet behind the ears I provided them to every tom dick and Harry, but within a fortnight I had learnt all about agents looking for leads

[Denny]

Ok folks here's the story i have 7 years experience in my industry and 6 years in my current sector.
Last year I left a large company after 3 years because i wanted a change and didnt want to become part of the furniture so a year a go i left and got a job working for a very small specialist company.
I had sent them my CV on the off chance and they invited me for an interview.
they saw on my CV i had experience in a field they wanted to go into, how would i like to join them set up there department be a manager and run the show? definitely i thought great opportunity for me, I mentioned I had little experience managing people (supervised a small team of temps but that was it) they said fine i could learn and be trained i asked what technology they had and told them what the industry standard was and what i had experience of using they said they had an old system but where definitely going to update it ......

10 months later the job has turned out totally the opposite to what i was expecting and what i was told -it turned out they already had a department in place and I wasn't going to be setting up anything (well i say department it was 1 person who has been there 10 years over worked and stressed out but unwilling to change) i only got a job description a month ago! no new technology (access and excel still being used for EVERYTHING- they use paper and biros and tippex FFS), i have had no management training and very little other training and have had huge ammounts of work and therefore stress piled on me and to top it all of they tell me i am not living up to there expectations and that i needed to be re-trained and have some responsibilty taken away from me and would i mind signing an agreement to this effect....(they told me this AFTER i completed a huge project for them on a ridiculous timeline to keep their fave client sweet)!

I have told them they are way behind the times and my experience at the other companies i have worked at (in the same industry|) has been very different and that i made it clear to them at the start what my experince and background was.

basically i have wasted a year of my - although i have got some experience as a manager i feel if i stay i will go mad so enough is enough
i am now going to quit and having taken advice about my skills and experience and what is available i am taking the plunge into contracting

however i have a few concerns about what will happen when i hand my notice in
1) they will make my notice period hell
2) they will try and "sack" me so it looks like i was dismissed
3) My reference will be tulip as i "did not live up to their expectations"


as i am going in to the contract world should i really be bothered about these things or just think f**k em and wait, do my time til my notice is up

This should be posted on www.i-resign not here, but now that you have posted here.....

You have legitimate reasons for leaving because you were missold the position, so a year on your CV is not that bad as a CV filler and won't make you look unreliable or unprofessional.

A company cannot by law give you poor references that are misleading and untrue. It is illegal to do this.

When you ask for references ask for it in writing not just verbally and take it with you when you go, in case one needs to be taken up. Then you'll know what they are likely to say about you if verbal take up is ever needed.

If it seems to risky to get a potential client or EB to ask for a reference, say you started a business enterprise or developed a website or something that took you x amount of months and then travelled and now you want to go into contracting. Get a plausible friend to provide the reference, if need be. This will disguise a pretty disasterous year on your CV and won't hinder your chances of making it as a contractor provided your skills are up to date. In any event, references are rarely taken up in IT, from what I read on here, so you may be worrying about nothing. But best be prepared.

Good luck.

[NotAllThere]

Search this forum re: notice terms and the enforceability thereof. Especially with regards to whether you actually have to turn up to work during your notice period.

There is a form of unfair dismissal called "constructive dismissal". This is when you are effectively made to resign by the way you are being unfairly treated by your management. Quit, and tell them that you will be suing for constructive dismissal.

While working out your notice period, document any instances of "making your life hell" - if they permit you to work out your notice once you've informed them that you're suing. Deal with them professionally and rationally. They can only make your life hell if you let them. The worst they can do is terminated forthwith, leaving you free to contract, and you can still sue them.

Employment law is on the side of the employee. That's why I never employ anyone.