Using your own equipment on site

[ladymuck]

I don't use a laptop but instead have a USB pen drive which I always plug in and use on site. This has everything I need on it - apps I can run off it on the local pc, source code from previous projects, all my personal and company stuff. Couldn't live without it.

I wish! My current gig allows nothing. I have to use the client's kit - fine with that, it's a bank so totally understandable. The machines are so locked down they barely function. No internet access (intranet and the bank's own website only). No external email either in or outbound - I can only email internal staff - not a big deal as I would never use the client's email system for non-work anyway but it's hard trying to liaise with KPMG and PWC when I have to ask someone to email them on my behalf. Not being able to get into my own emails is a pain in the parts though. No external devices (usb drives, etc) can be attached, again understandable but a MASSIVE hassle. The CD-rom tray is locked down too. I could get internet and external email unlocked but I don't have any children to offer the blood of, and the internet speed is so slow it's like going old school and downloading over dialup!

[NotAllThere]

I've worked at two sites in the last 7 years that insisted that contractors bring their own laptops. All that happened was that the system administrators checked the laptops for malware, and that they had up to date anti-malware software installed. The contractors verified that they kept their systems clean.

After that it was down to trust. Anyone breaching that trust would have been off project immediately. But we were all there to do a job of work, so the issue never arose.

( When I was recruiting for one of the projects, one candidate expressed disbelief that I required him to go and buy a laptop. He didn't get the gig ).

Plenty of clients allow you to access the internet on your own laptop, through their networks, while otherwise not allowing access to the client systems.

[VectraMan]

Yep - doesn't suggest anything towards IR35 if there's a reason, and security is a good reason.

I use a laptop provided by the client to work at home as well as on site. I need to access specialist hardware, so I need to be on the LAN either physically or via VPN, and their policy doesn't allow me to use anything other than their equipment. I think I'm safe.

[Ardesco]

No I do try and do as much as possible to stay outside IR35 but my point is things like this don't help.

It hard because we all know the score and we know clients treat us like employees and we have to do our best not to let it happen but I don't know why it has to be so hard!

To be honest not plugging your own lappy into a network at a client site really has no effect. It is easy enought to prove that the clients security policy does not allow this and is really not a D&C issue as it's a "security" policy. All of the places that I have worked at that refused to let people plug thier own kit into the network has refused any external consultancies as well. You want on the clients network? Yes? In that case you do so with thier machines.

[moorfield]

I don't use a laptop but instead have a USB pen drive which I always plug in and use on site. This has everything I need on it - apps I can run off it on the local pc, source code from previous projects, all my personal and company stuff. Couldn't live without it.

[dotnetter]

No I do try and do as much as possible to stay outside IR35 but my point is things like this don't help.

It hard because we all know the score and we know clients treat us like employees and we have to do our best not to let it happen but I don't know why it has to be so hard!

[Ardesco]

I do know what your saying but it kind of pisses me off a bit.

Why not put it in a contract that they can sue me if I mess their network? After all isn't that covered by my PI insurance?

Also at some point there needs to be a level of trust between the admins guys and developers. Sure I could mess up the network, but I could do that on a company machine or I could do many things but I'm not that stupid.

Ah I dunno I suppose your right, I need to start being a bit more choosey about my contracts in the future as I think being able to use my own equipment makes the job so much easier and more enjoyable. My productivity is so much hight when I have all the tools I need wherever I go rather than using some poxy two bob machine that been around the block more times than single mother from southend.

Unless you're direct probably because they don't have a contract with you. They have a contract with your agency, and there is no way in hell the agency is going to let themselves be potentially liable for anything like that.

Not to mention, if your only basis for not being IR35 caught is that you drag your laptop into work, you probably have issues anyway.....

(BTW it's not a good IR35 issue because most companies will not allow machines from external sources onto thier networks. I've not come across one that will in the past 7 years)

[dotnetter]

I do know what your saying but it kind of pisses me off a bit.

Why not put it in a contract that they can sue me if I mess their network? After all isn't that covered by my PI insurance?

Also at some point there needs to be a level of trust between the admins guys and developers. Sure I could mess up the network, but I could do that on a company machine or I could do many things but I'm not that stupid.

Ah I dunno I suppose your right, I need to start being a bit more choosey about my contracts in the future as I think being able to use my own equipment makes the job so much easier and more enjoyable. My productivity is so much hight when I have all the tools I need wherever I go rather than using some poxy two bob machine that been around the block more times than single mother from southend.

[hyperD]

On one site I used to contract at, some of the contractors used to bring in their laptops as a means of trying to tick a box on the outside IR35 status as well as circumventing the site's draconian measures of not allowing contractors to use the internet on their (clients') PCs.

The client eventually banned all personal electronic devices used by contractors while onsite. Including the use of mobile phones.

[Ardesco]

Yeah if they was using the companies AV plus connecting as a domain user where group policies control teh client machine.

Whats the difference between my laptop and a permies laptop?

That's why you aren't a sys admin

The sys admin has the ability to get into the permies laptop and do anything he wants to it. He can push out windows updates to make sure the whole company is running the exact same version of windows. He can update and modify AV settings, he can install new programs and delete old ones he can clear off data on it if he wants. He has all the power and control over everything in his network.

If a permie does something to thier laptop that screws up the network he can come down on them like a ton of bricks, he can take thier laptop away from them, etc, etc.

Can he do this to your laptop? No. What if somethign on your laptop causes a huge problem on his network? It is him who gets the blame for letting your laptop on the network in the first place.

If you really can't understand why the sys admin would have a problem with you putting your laptop on his network there really isn't much point discussing it further.

By the way mind if I come and plug into your network sometime? It will be fine, honest guvnor.....

[SueEllen]

Whats the difference between my laptop and a permies laptop?

You've answered the question yourself -

Even though their own employees take laptops home and bring them in with virusus lol

The laptops are not the employees but the employers. That's the difference.

[dotnetter]

Do a search, this has been done to death many times.

Short answer, No don't expect to use your kit on thier network.

If you were the system admin would you let some contractor come in and plug his machine with god knows what on it into your network??

Yeah if they was using the companies AV plus connecting as a domain user where group policies control teh client machine.

Whats the difference between my laptop and a permies laptop?

[Ardesco]

Do a search, this has been done to death many times.

Short answer, No don't expect to use your kit on thier network.

If you were the system admin would you let some contractor come in and plug his machine with god knows what on it into your network??

[DiscoStu]

What your guys take on this?

I know its a good IR35 issue but what happens in reality?

Up until now I've always used the clients supplied equipment, but I much prefer to use my own.

My current contract I started using their equipment but it was dire, (blue screens, tulip spec etc etc) so I started using my own laptop. It was fine for a while but now IT have started moaning about it not being company equipment blah blah.

Even though their own employees take laptops home and bring them in with virusus lol

Anyway is it possible to argue this case with the client or what?

If you're connecting your machine to their network, no, probably not.

[dotnetter]

What your guys take on this?

I know its a good IR35 issue but what happens in reality?

Up until now I've always used the clients supplied equipment, but I much prefer to use my own.

My current contract I started using their equipment but it was dire, (blue screens, tulip spec etc etc) so I started using my own laptop. It was fine for a while but now IT have started moaning about it not being company equipment blah blah.

Even though their own employees take laptops home and bring them in with virusus lol

Anyway is it possible to argue this case with the client or what?