Reply to: Agency Withholding Payment

[Andy Hallett]

Seems to be a trend emerging. ClientCo this end terminated without notice despite a contractual notice period existing - invoiced for it & they're refusing to pay, instead opting to threaten to tell HMRC we're inside IR35. Some agencies just seem to think they're god.

I guess they're all using it to pay their Christmas bonuses eh?

That is very low. As an agent we don't actually know whether PSC contractors consider themselves to be inside or out, that's up to them and possibly HMRC and the courts to decide as appropriate.

Plough on with your claim.

[SussexSeagull]

I think people get confused between contract law and IR35. It is certainly possibly the notice period could be pursued through the courts successfully but it wouldn't look great for IR35.

I am surprised the agent doesn't ask the client to put in an e-mail there is no work available for the notice period, which would surely kill any subsequent challenges stone dead?

[DirtyDog]

What if you are on the client's site for a week with no PC and no logon so they say they won't pay you because you haven't done any work?

Different situation - they want you to be available for work, so will pay for you to be there on site. If they don't want you to work, then that's another matter.

My terms of business are that I enter a contract to be available to work on the contracted days. If they don't have any work for me to do then I still expect to be paid.

If the contract is terminated early (by either party) then I expect the notice period to be honoured (by both parties) so there can be an orderly completion of the contracted work. My clients accept that this is a fair and reasonable way to do business too.

What wording do you include in the contract to ensure that they have to pay you?

[Wanderer]

Wanderer/SueEllen will be along to say exactly the opposite but why do you expect an invoice for notice period to be paid. You didn't work so you don't get paid.

What if you are on the client's site for a week with no PC and no logon so they say they won't pay you because you haven't done any work? My terms of business are that I enter a contract to be available to work on the contracted days. If they don't have any work for me to do then I still expect to be paid.

If the contract is terminated early (by either party) then I expect the notice period to be honoured (by both parties) so there can be an orderly completion of the contracted work. My clients accept that this is a fair and reasonable way to do business too.

Alternatively you can let the agency quietly pocket the notice period money.

[malvolio]

And a comment on screwing your own IR35 situation by expecting the client to pay for no work...

Freelance Contracts: Are notice periods worth having?

Well there you go - four years down and still the same old questions...


I've also said recently that being a contractor is your job. Be good at it.

[SueEllen]

Seems to be a trend emerging. ClientCo this end terminated without notice despite a contractual notice period existing - invoiced for it & they're refusing to pay, instead opting to threaten to tell HMRC we're inside IR35. Some agencies just seem to think they're god.

If you have IR35 insurance tell them to go ahead.

Regardless see if you can report them to the EIS - you have to phone the Pay and Work Rights Helpline on 0800 917 2368 9-5 week days or 9-1 on Saturday. You have to give your name and address, and explain that the agency terminated you without notice blah blah blah. If the EIS decide to get involved they can raid the agency's offices stopping them from working and the directors can be disqualified from running an employment agency/business.

[northernladuk]

Notice period...hit & miss with some agents but usually middle ground to be reached. It was a rare one in that their contract was signed instead of making them sign the standard one from this end.

Lesson here: Make them sign our own contract which provides for a hefty cancellation fee. Thats business!

Getting to the stage now where those who don't will get turned away as they're more stress/hassle than they're worth & the projects are usually bobbins!

Wanderer/SueEllen will be along to say exactly the opposite but why do you expect an invoice for notice period to be paid. You didn't work so you don't get paid. You still contractually worked your notice, just didn't get paid.

Does it say anywhere that you are only paid when a signed timesheet is submitted? No timesheet, no pay applies as well.

Another thread from OP in similar situation...

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...n-14-days.html

Secondly, if your client has to give you notice to leave, that implies that potentially he has to pay you for working when, in fact, there is no work for you to do: after all, if there were he wouldn’t be letting you go. That in turn implies a degree of Mutuality of Obligation above the irreducible minimum, which is one of the keystones of IR35 assessments.

[Old Greg]

Sorry NLUK - The agent is the one who the beef is with. The client is just a numpty. Agent not much better.

Greg...Yup, thats been put in writing. We couldn't believe it either!!

Have they put in writing that they will inform HMRC regardless, or that they will inform HMRC unless you cancel invoice?

[sgxluk]

Notice period...hit & miss with some agents but usually middle ground to be reached. It was a rare one in that their contract was signed instead of making them sign the standard one from this end.

Lesson here: Make them sign our own contract which provides for a hefty cancellation fee. Thats business!

Getting to the stage now where those who don't will get turned away as they're more stress/hassle than they're worth & the projects are usually bobbins!

[northernladuk]

Sorry NLUK - The agent is the one who the beef is with. The client is just a numpty. Agent not much better.

Greg...Yup, thats been put in writing. We couldn't believe it either!!

And what did you invoice for? Notice period you didn't work or just the time you worked?

[sgxluk]

Sorry NLUK - The agent is the one who the beef is with. The client is just a numpty. Agent not much better.

Greg...Yup, thats been put in writing. We couldn't believe it either!!

[northernladuk]

Seems to be a trend emerging. ClientCo this end terminated without notice despite a contractual notice period existing - invoiced for it & they're refusing to pay, instead opting to threaten to tell HMRC we're inside IR35. Some agencies just seem to think they're god.

I guess they're all using it to pay their Christmas bonuses eh?

What did you invoice for? The notice period you didn't work? And aren't you mixing up clients and agents in that paragraph. I can't tell who your beef is with.

[Old Greg]

Seems to be a trend emerging. ClientCo this end terminated without notice despite a contractual notice period existing - invoiced for it & they're refusing to pay, instead opting to threaten to tell HMRC we're inside IR35. Some agencies just seem to think they're god.

I guess they're all using it to pay their Christmas bonuses eh?

Have they put in writing (or can you get a recording) that you must withdraw your invoice or they will inform on you to HMRC? If so I would get legal advice as to whether that constitutes blackmail and report the to the police.

[sgxluk]

Seems to be a trend emerging. ClientCo this end terminated without notice despite a contractual notice period existing - invoiced for it & they're refusing to pay, instead opting to threaten to tell HMRC we're inside IR35. Some agencies just seem to think they're god.

I guess they're all using it to pay their Christmas bonuses eh?

[DirtyDog]

Is the agent Spring Technology?

Unlikely:

when I started trying to find out a bit more about them I found that it was basically a one man band from down south operating as a sole trader not even Ltd he was being bank rolled by another chap whos name I only found out by doing a WhoIs on their domain name and the name came back as the same address the agency was registered at