Reply to: Worth learning Perl?

[adulion]

ruby is the way forward, features derived from both python and perl but a lot quicker to write than perl/python.

[r0bly0ns]

regarding Redhat support, i've only used them for hardware issues (is model X disk array supported etc.).. once a system is up and running, it's hardly ever touched again.. maybe just a new processer or disk added.. yes, updates are released often but if you know what you're doing you would never install/update stuff which breaks the current system..

Absolutely right.

But you may be instructed to by your manager (Was a permie at the time)

I was just pointing out that Linux does get upgrades and service packs, whereas a previous poster had indicated it doesn't

[barry_abs]

Whenever I project manage a development project now, I always fear its going to involve *nix ... as this invariably means I am dealing with anarak (or more scarily full length matrix style leather coats) wearers, who spend ages faffing about and protesting about obscure and pointless issues just to make themselves seem important. Dealing with the average microsoft devloper is far easier, as they are just chancers who care more about getting paid and going home than the finer points of techinical crafting... but least you can actually talk to them and make sense of things... kind of.

i 100% agree.. most linux contractors i've met have been guilty of this, prattling on about their techs with a smug glow of superiority.. this breed of p0erson is weak, feeling the need to prove a point.. the .NET contractors i've worked with are generally a more down-to-earth bunch..

the 3/4 length leather trench image always tickles me (what is it with that class of future-goth that feels a spikey or puppy-dog, novelty backsack also looks good? and those enormous, metal clad boots and shin pads)

regarding Redhat support, i've only used them for hardware issues (is model X disk array supported etc.).. once a system is up and running, it's hardly ever touched again.. maybe just a new processer or disk added.. yes, updates are released often but if you know what you're doing you would never install/update stuff which breaks the current system..

[swamp]

Jobserve count:

Python: 51
Perl: 202

I'm amazed Perl is still used. I know it very well, and I know how diabolical it is to maintain!

Python and Ruby are probably the way to go long term; Perl will *eventually* die a death. And every decent developer should know a scripting language.

[VectraMan]

Dealing with the average microsoft devloper is far easier, as they are just chancers who care more about getting paid and going home than the finer points of techinical crafting

You called?

My limited experience suggests that things aren't really any better in the Linux world, just that people want to love Linux and want to hate Windows. Doesn't make it true.

[tay]

Whenever I project manage a development project now, I always fear its going to involve *nix ... as this invariably means I am dealing with anarak (or more scarily full length matrix style leather coats) wearers, who spend ages faffing about and protesting about obscure and pointless issues just to make themselves seem important. Dealing with the average microsoft devloper is far easier, as they are just chancers who care more about getting paid and going home than the finer points of techinical crafting... but least you can actually talk to them and make sense of things... kind of.

[r0bly0ns]

*nix and it's technologies are mature and of a very high quality.. no service packs, no constant security concerns, no new releases breaking compatibility..

One of my old clients used Redhat Linux, that used to get updates and service packs almost as frequently as windows.

And every 2 years they brought out a new version of the OS and retired an old one.

In the 5 years I worked for the client, I had to do 3 migrations to new OS's because the old ones were retired or no longer supported by the database they used.

If they had been on windows 2k server they would not have had to do one migration in that time .......

[Flat Eric]

.NET = .Never Ending Treadmill of updates....

[barry_abs]

tay, it's just a matter of taste..

what grinds about .NET with me is it's tight-coupling to windows.. i far prefer a linux backend, or at least the choice.. the main gripe with windows is it's constant evolution.. working in manufacturing industry, the punters want a system to work for 15 years minimum - with a linux based system you just switch it on and leave it running ad infinitum.. *nix and it's technologies are mature and of a very high quality.. no service packs, no constant security concerns, no new releases breaking compatibility..

.NET 1.0 is already out of life, .NET 1.1 soon to follow in deprecation.. that's more upgrades to the backend and software, already..

[tay]

I love it when developers get all territorial about thier programming languages. Usually the ones that squeal loudest are the ones to ignore.

[Flat Eric]

... but the management have since bought into the .NET game.. .

This raises two points..
1) The management are at best ill informed. You should leave this gig forthwith.

2) You are being asked to work in hazardous working conditions. Under the health and safety at work act, your employer owes you a duty of care. Are you provided with protective clothing. i.e. Funny glasses, a false nose/beard combo and a spinning bow-tie. All of these will assist you in explaining why you are using .NET to your peers.. They also allow you to, upon taking off said protective gear, to psychologically leave .NET behind.

[barry_abs]

PERL is still the daddy, community and adoption wise but it seems less and less used in new applications / websites thesedays.. it's still the king of the extended-bash-style scripting language though, IMO..

the OO langs (python and ruby) are blowing up - i reckon they'll overtake.. so yeah - the future.. google have adopted python in a big way.. ruby has a loyal fanbase of geeks, too with Rails being most peoples introduction..

if your employers are thick enough to have a microsoft box in the server room, it's unlikely you'll get to use these techs..

unfortunately for me, my new gig is .NET, which i tuliping hate.. i originally applied for a PERL / LAMP gig but the management have since bought into the .NET game.. not happy.

[ChimpMaster]

Is Ruby the way forward then?

[Flat Eric]

...Practical Extraction and ReportingLanguage...

That's funny.. I remember a conversation years ago on Usenet regarding Perl being named after the "Pearl of great price" from the bible. I think it refers to the Earth (my bible study days are a long, dim, distant memory)..

Still,
Practical - You cannot be serious...
Extraction - It certainly extracts something, usually sniggering and derision
Reporting -
Language - Only just...

[DaveB]

<RANT >
Python is the way forward..

I have about 9 applications running on my linux server which are written in python..

Guess how many I have running written in perl.... ZERO.

These aren't my my python applications, they are system processes (I'm using Fedora 7).

Have you ever seen a perl script which does anything remotely interesting.. It's a case study in obfuscation

</RANT >

Perl isn't designed to be used to create large applications, it's a data extraction and reporting tool( Practical Extraction and ReportingLanguage )that happens to be usefull for other things as well. 99.9% of perl sripts are quick and dirty tools knocked up by sysadmins to do a particular job. LIke trawl log files for particular info and turn it into somthing usefull, or modify large numbers of text files on the fly.

Saying that there are some mad fools who have done some really quite impressive things with Perl, but thats not what it was intended for originally.

Trivia: Larry Wall, the languages original creator, stills insists that what Perl actually stands for is Pathalogically Eclectic Rubbish Lister. Either way, it;s not too far from the truth