Reply to: Finance, Investment Development Contracts

[Frep D'Oronge]

Having said that, if you are clued in about maths that these banks use you may break into a niche area. It pays quite a bit more than the run of the mill programming jobs that the banks have.

OK thats what I thought - but I was just checking to see if there was anything substantial to the 'bankers club' apart from just general experience in the industry, in other words that breaking into finance won't require ninja maths.

Next step = rejigging the CV to break/blag into a banking job

[kingshuk]

One question is at what level do most developers work at in banking jobs - is it mandatory to know Black-Scholes inside and out? ... So is the hard core maths needed for a break into finance?

No. Not unless you want a job in that area.

Most of the softwares banks need - front office order management systems, messaging, middle office etc etc do NOT need advanced mathematics knowledge. I know people writing software for banks for 10 years or more and they wouldn't know what a partial differential equation is.Which is not to say that they are not good. Its just that they don't need to know in their jobs.

Having said that, if you are clued in about maths that these banks use you may break into a niche area. It pays quite a bit more than the run of the mill programming jobs that the banks have.

[Frep D'Oronge]

I am thinking of doing the same to get into finance. I have done a bit of research, & B'Bates I did actually buy the Hull Tome, quite interesting and probably useful in a hand-to-hand combat situation.
One question is at what level do most developers work at in banking jobs - is it mandatory to know Black-Scholes inside and out? I have an Engineering/CS background, but still I haven't touched partial derivatives for ages and am finding it tough. So is the hard core maths needed for a break into finance?

[kingshuk]

How does one move into the banking sector as a contractor, obviously that is where the big money is, but every job ad asks for previous banking experience.

I found the easy option is to apply for a permie role in the banks. In the current job market I found many of the banks are relatively relaxed about previous banking experience. Serve your time there and come out for contracting.

I recently worked in a City bank as a permie (without prior banking experience) for about 6 months. At that time I had also interviewed in two other banks. None of them asked for prior work experience in banking. I have now moved into contracting in another bank.

Interview in the first bank was java and sybase test. That was followed by a "design discussion" where they explain a real life design problem and you are supposed to provide a solution. The other 2 had similar formats too (number of interviews vary - one of them took 5). Of course whether its java or something else depends on your area of expertise.

One thing worth noting here is - in all three I was asked questions about instruments, some business flow etc. So you are expected to know at least a little about the area. Pick up some good books and prepare before you start interviewing.

[Toasta]

I got my current gig at a bank without banking experience, although I did pass the tech test with 96%, im glad because now it should be no problem getting future lucrative contracts.

What sort of stuff was on the test? And what sort of preperation did you do for it?

[Diestl]

I got my current gig at a bank without banking experience, although I did pass the tech test with 96%, im glad because now it should be no problem getting future lucrative contracts.

[Toasta]

There is a book:

Options, Futures and Other Derivatives by John Hull

If you understand that, you're in.

Banks do accept "I've read a book".

They test people anyway

Great, i'll check it out. Thanks.

[BlasterBates]

There is a book:

Options, Futures and Other Derivatives by John Hull

If you understand that, you're in.

Banks do accept "I've read a book".

They test people anyway

[BrilloPad]

Thanks for the advice mate, just one other thing, how does the work differ from run of the mill dev work?

IMO difference is the commuting. And the users are total morons - I get more sense out of my 5 year old kids.

[Toasta]

So in other words i'm going to have to be prepared to feel like a bit of a chump initially, and for them to assume im not to bright?

Just until I learn this stuff.

[Ardesco]

Also they use acronyms for things that don't make sense and if you haven't worked in the banking world you don't twid what they are talking about at first.

When I was working for barclays a few years back they used to call thier databases CDRs (Central Data Repository). Confused the hell out of me at first..

We have a problem with this CDR, it's going to cost millions to replace...

Eh? but they only cost like £1 a pop.

What are you talking about a CDR is in the region of ten of thousands

Erm...

[Ruprect]

It doesn't really, but it is handy to know what you're talking about, especially regarding the instruments, measures, stats etc that you work with; I guess that is why they always ask for people with experience... especially when your client (traders/deal clearance teams etc) have little time to explain these things to you.

There are some courses available which may help, but really I'd recommend either of the options outlined above first, as experience will count for more than any course (pragmatically).

[Toasta]

Thanks for the advice mate, just one other thing, how does the work differ from run of the mill dev work?

[Ruprect]

Seriously though your best options are:
1) introduction (CV forward) from a mate who already works in banking
2) getting some experience as a permie and then go contracting.

[Ruprect]

Now if we told you that then everyone would do it...