Reply to: Trying to get into Java J2EE

[SoupDragon]

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lol, yeah all I really meant was it shouldn't need that much experience to be a member of a team working on just a part of a project, not being the architect of the whole thing.

[TheRightStuff]

Becuase that is what they need.

I recently deisgned a warehouse from scratch for a major UK retailer. Told them which country to locate it (was in Europe), how big, what size, shape, colour, people, shift patterns etc to use. All based on me saying "x marks the spot". At £150m of capital expenditure they better hope I know what the **** I am talking about.

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[Sockpuppet]

What I don't buy is the ridiculously long amounts of experience some jobs ask for.

Becuase that is what they need.

I recently deisgned a warehouse from scratch for a major UK retailer. Told them which country to locate it (was in Europe), how big, what size, shape, colour, people, shift patterns etc to use. All based on me saying "x marks the spot". At £150m of capital expenditure they better hope I know what the **** I am talking about.

[Euro-commuter]

Sorry I should have made it clearer. My motivation for retraining was to future proof my skills. I suppose there are still people out there doing COBOL so I probably don't need to worry!

In fact I had trouble getting work in unix c client/server some years ago, and I suspected it was because I had 19 years COBOL on my CV. So I just eliminated 15 years of it, and suddenly I wasn't stuck in COBOL any more.

But I agree with other posters like Cowboy Bob: in anything worthwhile, 1 year of experience doesn't make you knowledgeable, far less an expert.

[VectraMan]

Sorry I should have made it clearer. My motivation for retraining was to future proof my skills. I suppose there are still people out there doing COBOL so I probably don't need to worry!

Don't worry. Any day now the industry will turn against web front ends, and Java and .NET will go with it and real programmers will be in big demand again.

[SoupDragon]

Sorry I should have made it clearer. My motivation for retraining was to future proof my skills. I suppose there are still people out there doing COBOL so I probably don't need to worry!

[BlasterBates]

I have 12 years of experience in C/C++ on UNIX with Oracle - I've never contracted in London though, always Suffolk. It's dried up around here though.

Maybe I should just stick with that? WWYD in my situation??

What and you're trying for a Java job. Apply for the C++ jobs, there are plenty of them and you'll have no problem getting interviews.

[VectraMan]

I have 12 years of experience in C/C++ on UNIX with Oracle - I've never contracted in London though, always Suffolk. It's dried up around here though.

Maybe I should just stick with that? WWYD in my situation??

You didn't say that. Agents must be really confused by you selling yourself as a Java contractor.

Experience is everything. Clients don't want people to learn and experiment on the job, they want people that know exactly how to solve every problem as they've done the same thing before n times. And that only comes from experience, no matter how much you think you know the language.

What you really want is a job for which your C++ skills are essential, but where they also use Java and so you can get to do some of that too. My last two jobs have been for C++, but working with people doing Java.

[SoupDragon]

Your prolly right... </thread>

[ChimpMaster]

I have 12 years of experience in C/C++ on UNIX with Oracle - I've never contracted in London though, always Suffolk. It's dried up around here though.

Maybe I should just stick with that? WWYD in my situation??

If immediate £ is your primary objective, then use your C++ skills to get a contract in the City. That's what I would do.

And write ur CV so that it focusses heavily on your C++ and relevant industry experience.

[SoupDragon]

I have 12 years of experience in C/C++ on UNIX with Oracle - I've never contracted in London though, always Suffolk. It's dried up around here though.

Maybe I should just stick with that? WWYD in my situation??

[Cowboy Bob]

After a whole year of using a technology you should be pretty damn proficient in it... how much more productive are you going to be after another year?

Rubbish. Even now after I've been doing this stuff for 10 years I'm still learning new stuff every day. After only 12 months you're only just going to be scratching the surface.

J2EE development is much more than just knowing the language. Can you configure a Tivoli Access Manager server? Can you remotely install some SSL certificates on an AIX machine? Can you create stored procedures on DB2 running on an AS/400? Etc, etc...

Contractors are supposed to be experienced in much more than just coding.

[M_B]

I can understand clients not wanting you to learn on the job unless they are having trouble getting people.

What I don't buy is the ridiculously long amounts of experience some jobs ask for. After a whole year of using a technology you should be pretty damn proficient in it... how much more productive are you going to be after another year? Diminishing returns sets in.

For example, I learned perl / CGI on the job - I was fully productive within a few weeks. Same story with ASP. I know Java EE has way more bells and whistles but still...

They will generally opt for the person with the most skills and experience. If that is you then great.

A year of Java\J2EE is nothing. Also they are looking for more than just technical skills. They are looking for experience of the software lifecycle and project experience. The job is a lot more than sitting at your desk and coding all day.

[SoupDragon]

I can understand clients not wanting you to learn on the job unless they are having trouble getting people.

What I don't buy is the ridiculously long amounts of experience some jobs ask for. After a whole year of using a technology you should be pretty damn proficient in it... how much more productive are you going to be after another year? Diminishing returns sets in.

For example, I learned perl / CGI on the job - I was fully productive within a few weeks. Same story with ASP. I know Java EE has way more bells and whistles but still...

[Euro-commuter]

Contracting pays well precisely because of the experience that a contractor is expected to have, and because the client can insist on an exact match with his wishlist.

So the question of how you can contract with only 6 months of not quite the right experience, is to miss the point 100%.

You can get experience in a permanent job. Yes it pays less. Sorry if that doesn't sound sympathetic, but how do you think all the contractors here got where they are?