Reply to: Another agency Scam?

[cjbarkwell]

You Joker

Holy thread reaper Batman!

Hey man ... it's only been 11 years !

I found the thread cos I still get the emails for these chappies.
Although nowadays it seems they're called rts recruitment, with emails linking to evolutionjobs ....
However, back on topic, it is properly annoying to "think" you have something in the pipeline when you actually dont. The only place I ever really find negative (and generally true) comments about certain agencies is here ...
I'm old enough to know particular smells, but I do resent my time being wasted, and the better 10% of me cant help but think of the poor person that might not know better.
As such, and in order to contribute to society as a whole, I decided to do a Lazarus.
(It's also possible I didn't realise how old the thread was

Also, just to put it out there again ... agencywatch.com ... could it be done without ending up in court ? I've seen threads slammed on here before, requests for a users personal details etc... but if it were done in the same way as private eye it might work ?

Cool that someone responded to my thread reaping tho ! ... cheers Robin !

[SlipTheJab]

I've had a few of these emails, and responded a few times.
Never heard back.
I suspect very few of the jobs are real (but what's new there).

The one thing I DO know is that they send me an email about a job for a company I personally know hasn't existed in the stated location for nearly ten years (Primary Image - Surbiton UK).
My personal opinion, based partially on facts and partially on just having worked in the industry for a long time and knowing what agencies get up to - is that its pretty much a waste of time (at best) to respond to these emails.

Does anyone know any website that actually lists agencies and gives the lowdown on them ? I ask since I'm thinking of setting one up, but am wary of the inevitable legal issues it would involve ...

Holy thread reaper Batman!

[cjbarkwell]

Bargepole

I've had a few of these emails, and responded a few times.
Never heard back.
I suspect very few of the jobs are real (but what's new there).

The one thing I DO know is that they send me an email about a job for a company I personally know hasn't existed in the stated location for nearly ten years (Primary Image - Surbiton UK).
My personal opinion, based partially on facts and partially on just having worked in the industry for a long time and knowing what agencies get up to - is that its pretty much a waste of time (at best) to respond to these emails.

Does anyone know any website that actually lists agencies and gives the lowdown on them ? I ask since I'm thinking of setting one up, but am wary of the inevitable legal issues it would involve ...

[DodgyAgent]

I think it's got something to do with the EBs' business value. The more CVs they have on their database the more marketable their business is. No doubt when they are touting for new clients and meet someone from supply chain face to face they probably take along a good CVs of the kind of calibre candidate they are successful at attracting which could interest the client. Again, it is us doing their work rather than them who are just using us to get them what they want. Ask any EB thinking of selling what the sales price should be and they will always include the number of candidate CVs they have on their database influencing the sale price.

That's why I think contractors should really charge EBs for storing CVs on their database.

Denny , if you were to sell to people face to face in the same manner that you ramble so incoherently it is no wonder that the market needs us agents.
Do you write specs or any other documents as part of your job?

[oraclesmith]

And to the chap that said 'why dont you search on jobserve' you clearly know nothing about recruitment, its a pretty hard job to do well so just searching a database is what any muppet can do. The real skill of the job come from networking.

Reformation; if you read my post you will see that I didn't say what you quoted. I'm sure it is a tough job, but my point is about EB's efforts in collecting CV's for their own databases when from the contractors point of view there are just too many EB's to keep up to date, so they tend to update only their favourite job-boards. Of course there are multiple skills involved.

As an example, I gave Huxley my CV about a year or so ago with permission to use it throughout their group of companies ( ). Received about two well-off-mark calls from them in the last year and of course my CV has since moved on and is bang up to date on Jobsite, Jobserve etc. They probably have no idea whether I'm available or what contract's I've done since.

Anyway, no-one has satisfactorily answered my question about obsessive CV-collecting by EB's.

[cojak]

And to the chap that said 'why dont you search on jobserve' you clearly know nothing about recruitment, its a pretty hard job to do well so just searching a database is what any muppet can do. The real skill of the job come from networking.

Which is why I reject agent's requests to join my LinkedIn network.

They're not piggybacking and competing with me on my own network. If there's work out there I'll take, thankyouverymuch...

PS - I also put work out too btw, it's not all gimmee

[oraclesmith]

although you are right about cv job boards not being the solution on their own, I have always thought that the agency cv database is overrated. the most effective way of resourcing is by networking , and databases are better for pointing resourcers in the right direction than for the cvs themselves

I'm sure it is. My point was more an efficiency one. There is undoubtedly a place for CV databases alongside other methods, but why have hundreds of databases around (one at each EB) containing ageing information when EB's already have access to a handful of reasonably up to date job board databases which most contractors already use as a matter of course?

In other words, why the effort to post fake jobs or other time-wasting schemes just to get hold of some CV's for your database (and alienate some of the candidates) when you can already get hold of the most up to date versions on Jobserve/Jobsite/CWJobs when you actually have a job available? Is it something to keep staff occupied in a slack afternoon?

[ratewhore]

No idea what Denny is on about as he is on my ignore list but I can imagine!!

Anyways, to the OP this is my tuppence worth (or 2 cents as I'm currently in Euroland):

I was offered a £100 gift voucher to forward a contact to a recruiter for a gig. I was looking for either a serious referral fee or a split margin as the area I work within is specialised. As it turned out, said recruiter wouldn't agree to this so I ended up providing the contact through my company with an appropriate markup. I think in total I probably turned over closer to £30K from this arrangement so I tend to take these referral 'gifts' with a serious pinch of salt. Fundamentally, I believe the agencies should treat contractors with a bit more seriousness than they do currently. We are running businesses after all...

[DodgyAgent]

I thought i was being honest, of course i want the CV of a referral to place them and make money but what i cant see is why a contractor would hide that info if he was offered a few hundred quid if the referral got placed. I dont see it as being a major problem or trying to get leads out of people.

And to the chap that said 'why dont you search on jobserve' you clearly know nothing about recruitment, its a pretty hard job to do well so just searching a database is what any muppet can do. The real skill of the job come from networking.

the giving of information is a personal thing, the skill of an agent is how you go about getting it. some conntractors give it easily , some sell it but some give it only if they trust the person . an agent needs to build that trust- you will always find that the harder the information is to find, the more valuable it is. there is a real skill to networking, which combined with hard work makes for avery succesful agent.

although you are right about cv job boards not being the solution on their own, I have always thought that the agency cv database is overrated. the most effective way of resourcing is by networking , and databases are better for pointing resourcers in the right direction than for the cvs themselves

[Euro-commuter]

Hardly the oily rag we're the ones that source opportunity and then present them to you, i'd have thought you'd be grateful for our help. You can always go and canvass for work yourself you know?

I often work through agencies and am aware of them as a necessary link in the chain as it currently tends to work. I just think that "grateful for our help" is a bit stronger than I'd want to put it.

When you buy a newspaper. are you "grateful for the newspaper seller's help"? I wouldn't put it that way: you pay your money and make use of his services, which he only provides because he makes money out of you.

In the case of agents, the phrase '"necessary evil" comes more to mind. Not that I'm certain about "necessary".

[reformation]

It's like asking the slice of ham to thank the sandwich shop

You sell bodies to clients. We are the raw material you need to make the sale.

The real machine of wealth creation is the company that has a requirement. We are the engineer. You must be the oily rag

Hardly the oily rag we're the ones that source opportunity and then present them to you, i'd have thought you'd be grateful for our help. You can always go and canvass for work yourself you know?

[reformation]

Although you are partly correct in your assertion that networking in this way helps everyone please do not pretend that you are somehow doing everyone a favour. "That's all it is" no that is not all it is. You are in it entirely and 100% for yourself and you are hustling for business. So please do not insult people's intelligence, just be honest about your motives (funnily enough there is nothing wrong with being in it for yourself - its what makes markets work so well), and that way you will avoid conforming to the recruitment agenct stereotype

I thought i was being honest, of course i want the CV of a referral to place them and make money but what i cant see is why a contractor would hide that info if he was offered a few hundred quid if the referral got placed. I dont see it as being a major problem or trying to get leads out of people.

And to the chap that said 'why dont you search on jobserve' you clearly know nothing about recruitment, its a pretty hard job to do well so just searching a database is what any muppet can do. The real skill of the job come from networking.

[Euro-commuter]

Not quite but we do create the opportunity for you, and by the way you're welcome ;-)

It's like asking the slice of ham to thank the sandwich shop

You sell bodies to clients. We are the raw material you need to make the sale.

The real machine of wealth creation is the company that has a requirement. We are the engineer. You must be the oily rag

[oraclesmith]

Hi EB's,

Can you tell me why you bother collecting CV's at all ? All that fake job ad and recommend a friend stuff is a waste of time in my opinion.

There are a few major job boards where there is no end of IT contractor CV's available complete with up to date work availability, searchable profile data, preferences etc. I've never had a call from an EB who claims to have found my CV in their own company's database and in any case it's likely to be out of date. I mean, which contractor in their right mind is going to update the plethora of EB's with new CV's and keep them up to date with availability when they can just do it on three job boards and get a better response.

I've had loads of calls recently and they're all from EB's who use one of three main job boards or iProfile. Even when I've applied for a contract role at an EB who I know has my CV on their database they usually have trouble finding it or it's old and I have to send them a new one to look at. Either way, they wouldn't have called me about the role even though (based on my call to them) they end up putting me forward.

So what's the point?

[DodgyAgent]

No you don't. The client creates the opportunity, you just source the most likely candidates you can place with the client who will generate the biggest profit in mark ups for you. Candidates are doing you a great favour by making their services available to you by responsing to job ads, that may result in you making money from their work, skills and experience.

You don't create anything, let alone opportunities (unless you mean the opportunity to make a nuisance of yourselves which you do with remarkable success, I must say).

After all, if the client didn't have the job to do, you wouldn't be able to generate the work for them would you!

MONEY GRABBING, BARROWBOY, ASBO DODGING, LEECHES, THE LOT OF YOU.

You began by making a perfectly valid point and then ruined it with the mindless diatribe of hypocrisy. It is pretty pathetic that clients prefer to weed people like you out by using us barrow boys as intermediaries. It really does not say much for the average contractors commercial awareness does it?

Stick to welding the widgets Denny and leave the rest of us to make the world go round.