April 2023 - same role but deciding you're outside now

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Just because it's a limited duration project doesn't make a clear cut determination. Perms work on implementations as well. It's how you work on that implementation, not just the fact it's an implementation and limted duration.

That's not what I was saying - I was pointing out that all this pearl-clutching about people swapping from in to out on 6th April 2023 never applied to me as my assignments are short, but I was still caught up in the PSC bans, that's all.

[northernladuk]

This just highlights the daftness of the whole thing though. My entire contracting life has been spent on implementations - by their nature these are limited duration projects. There has never been a risk of me sitting around on the same gig and changing status from in to out or out to in - because I am never there long enough, and yet I got hit by the widespread PSC bans.

Just because it's a limited duration project doesn't make a clear cut determination. Perms work on implementations as well. It's how you work on that implementation, not just the fact it's an implementation and limted duration.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

This just highlights the daftness of the whole thing though. My entire contracting life has been spent on implementations - by their nature these are limited duration projects. There has never been a risk of me sitting around on the same gig and changing status from in to out or out to in - because I am never there long enough, and yet I got hit by the widespread PSC bans.

[SueEllen]

British understatement

You mean Angela Merkel's favourite English word.

[jamesbrown]

In other words, there is nothing about Chapter 8 that prevents pooling of cases if the working practices are sufficiently similar across the pool. That is true of Chapter 10 too. The advantage that comes from Chapter 10 is mainly the initial hook for the pool of similar cases and the reality that the client would give in pretty quickly, but that could largely happen across a bunch of Chapter 8 cases with some well posed nudge letters to the contractors involved.

[jamesbrown]

Regarding the MSC legislation, I agree, but there's also a good opportunity to pool a bunch of IR35 cases together for several years to come (people moving from outside to inside en masse at one client company), as well as pursuing the old Chapter 10 cases for the last two tax years and any Chapter 8 leads that follow that. In other words, they won't be materially hamstrung by Chapter 8 for a few years yet.

[jamesbrown]

I expect more than some degree of chaos

British understatement

[northernladuk]

https://www.freelanceinformer.com/ne...rence-to-hmrc/

Interesting article and some good points raised.....

Its going to be hard to suddenly deem yourself outside IR35 when the client had previously (rightly or wrongly) deemed you inside....

There is already a sticky in the correct part of the forum to cover this.

https://forums.contractoruk.com/acco...5-changes.html

[eek]

You think?

As I've said elsewhere, I predict that quite a few blanket bans will remain in place.

More generally, expect some degree of chaos.

I expect more than some degree of chaos - it's going to be a complete mare for a lot of companies - but it's hard to know how things will play out as it will be on a sector by sector basis.

Social care for one example is going to be fun and will instantly shift outside if agencies / end clients actually want to run a social care firm...

What I do know is that HMRC are going to be doing everything they can to use the MSC legislation because they hate the chapter 8 version of IR35...

[jamesbrown]

You think?

As I've said elsewhere, I predict that quite a few blanket bans will remain in place.

More generally, expect some degree of chaos.

[psychocandy]

https://www.freelanceinformer.com/ne...rence-to-hmrc/

Interesting article and some good points raised.....

Its going to be hard to suddenly deem yourself outside IR35 when the client had previously (rightly or wrongly) deemed you inside....