Reply to: Type of Visa / Work Permit required for auditing & pen testing in Europe

[darmstadt]

I wouldn't worry too much as you may not get the work anyway. Most companies that I know in Europe using penetration testers and auditing companies require that they go through various types of security clearance related to that country. The companies I know that are HQ'ed in non-European countries use staff or contractors based in that country.

[WTFH]

This is my query is a nutshell, but my question was also asking who would be responsible for the permit - it isnt clear whether my company would have to apply for it ...

Yes, your company is responsible. Your company sold the solution as one you can deliver, now it's your company's responsibility to deliver it.

or the company in the EU country engaging my company would have to do so.

No, not their responsibility, your company sold the solution as something your company could deliver. This is B2B, not B2C (or C2B)

My own feeling is that its likely that the EU company would have to approach their national employment office/ministry and seek guidance.

No, they are not employing any individual, they are engaging in a business contract. The only guidance they might seek is legal guidance on suing for failure to deliver.

it would be unlikely they would pick a UK company or pick a UK company with a EU presence (the latter presence would allow (I think) the UK employee a work permit under a temporary relocation step to carry out the work) unless the UK company could offer a service or a quality of service that no EU competitor could match.

They will choose whoever they want, based on companies that are prepared to sell to them. Your company agreed to a contract to deliver. Your company is unable to fulfil the contract.

I'd argue that the lack of clarity about who had to get the permit would just make a EU company choose another EU company since it would be the path of least resistance

It's perfect clear, it just appears that the answer doesn't suit what you want to hear.

[eek]

Again, to reiterate, if its my company's problem please point me to the relevant webpage site, just saying its my company's issue isnt really addressing my query, its little better than saying "because reasons". I'm seeking clarity on who has to do deal with it - I dont mind if its both mine and the EU company's so long as its clear

You are offering a service to a client.

If you don't have the correct work permit, you are not in a position to do the work you have sold to the client

At what point does that become your clients problem? Unless you explicitly make it their problem, at which point the easiest fix for them will be to get someone else to do the work.

I am utterly at a loss as to why you think it can be someone else's responsibility to ensure your company can legally provide the service your company is offering.

[DelBoyJonesy]

Er, not in the professional forums. If you post something stupid in General, I’ll be more than happy to call you an idiot there.

Oh, and your last example is exactly the opposite of the point you’re trying to make.

LOL - rudeness is rudeness no matter which forum it manifests itself in - the words and the meaning are still the same

[DelBoyJonesy]

It is your company's problem so you would have to deal with it...

Again, to reiterate, if its my company's problem please point me to the relevant webpage site, just saying its my company's issue isnt really addressing my query, its little better than saying "because reasons". I'm seeking clarity on who has to do deal with it - I dont mind if its both mine and the EU company's so long as its clear

[jamesbrown]

LOL - you don't like rudeness? If you want rudeness then look at the comment history of jamesbrown - says all you need to know really

https://forums.contractoruk.com/gene...ml#post2919354
https://forums.contractoruk.com/gene...ml#post2919304

Er, not in the professional forums. If you post something stupid in General, I’ll be more than happy to call you an idiot there.

Oh, and your last example is exactly the opposite of the point you’re trying to make.

[DelBoyJonesy]

Thanks to all who have made a positive contribution - its much appreciated

[DelBoyJonesy]

Sorry you don't like the answer but that isn't a reason to be utterly rude.

Added to my ignore list.

LOL - you don't like rudeness? If you want rudeness then look at the comment history of jamesbrown - says all you need to know really

https://forums.contractoruk.com/gene...ml#post2919354
https://forums.contractoruk.com/gene...ml#post2919304

[eek]

This is my query is a nutshell, but my question was also asking who would be responsible for the permit - it isnt clear whether my company would have to apply for it or the company in the EU country engaging my company would have to do so. All the information on work permits just talks about individuals going to the EU for permanent or temp work. My own feeling is that its likely that the EU company would have to approach their national employment office/ministry and seek guidance. For this reason alone (i.e. the hassle involved) it would be unlikely they would pick a UK company or pick a UK company with a EU presence (the latter presence would allow (I think) the UK employee a work permit under a temporary relocation step to carry out the work) unless the UK company could offer a service or a quality of service that no EU competitor could match.

Which brings me to the next point ...



I'd argue that the lack of clarity about who had to get the permit would just make a EU company choose another EU company since it would be the path of least resistance

It is your company's problem so you would have to deal with it...

[DelBoyJonesy]

Let's put the response in a different way:
The company which is supplying the resources to their customer needs to ensure that the resources they supply can legally work in the country where they are going to do the work.

This is my query is a nutshell, but my question was also asking who would be responsible for the permit - it isnt clear whether my company would have to apply for it or the company in the EU country engaging my company would have to do so. All the information on work permits just talks about individuals going to the EU for permanent or temp work. My own feeling is that its likely that the EU company would have to approach their national employment office/ministry and seek guidance. For this reason alone (i.e. the hassle involved) it would be unlikely they would pick a UK company or pick a UK company with a EU presence (the latter presence would allow (I think) the UK employee a work permit under a temporary relocation step to carry out the work) unless the UK company could offer a service or a quality of service that no EU competitor could match.

Which brings me to the next point ...

If the company cannot supply resources that can legally work in the country, then the company will need to cancel the agreement they have with their customer.

I'd argue that the lack of clarity about who had to get the permit would just make a EU company choose another EU company since it would be the path of least resistance

[WTFH]

Let's put the response in a different way:
The company which is supplying the resources to their customer needs to ensure that the resources they supply can legally work in the country where they are going to do the work.
If the company cannot supply resources that can legally work in the country, then the company will need to cancel the agreement they have with their customer.

[eek]

YAWNS

Sorry you don't like the answer but that isn't a reason to be utterly rude.

Added to my ignore list.

[DelBoyJonesy]

You implied that your contractor status was a determining factor in relation to your immigration status...



Otherwise, why mention this at all? It isn't important. In general, you cannot do "productive" work in a jurisdiction without permission to work, but you should obviously check with the immigration authorities in the relevant jurisdiction. Pen testing will be productive work, I think (I probably couldn't think of a better example of productive work if you asked).

YAWNS

[jamesbrown]

I havent said that at all

You implied that your contractor status was a determining factor in relation to your immigration status...

we would not legally be working for the EU company (in any direct sense)

Otherwise, why mention this at all? It isn't important. In general, you cannot do "productive" work in a jurisdiction without permission to work, but you should obviously check with the immigration authorities in the relevant jurisdiction. Pen testing will be productive work, I think (I probably couldn't think of a better example of productive work if you asked).

[DelBoyJonesy]

Which EU country are you going to? Looking at the gov.uk website, they each have their own rules:
Travelling to the EU, Switzerland, Norway, Iceland or Liechtenstein for work - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)

For instance:[/LIST]On the other hand, you would need a visa and permit for the same work in Spain.

(This is separate to the "no visa required for meetings" rule that Lance mentioned earlier.)

Thanks, I was aware that countries have differrent requirements, my question was more of a generic one since reviewing many countries on the list you cited (thanks) most of them dont include auditing, IT, etc., that my company carries out.