Reply to: Advertised rate vs Net pay

[contractorlifer]

Anything that doesn't specify it's a PAYE rate is always going to be a Assignment Rate (the HMRC approved term for what would be advertised as Umbrella / Inside IR35 rate).

If you want to hit the jackpot you want an agency / umbrella that forgets to give you a Key Information Document prior to you starting work (I really don't get how agencies / umbrellas can screw that simple step up).

Hi, I may have hit the jackpot, can you advise?!

[contractorlifer]

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ent-businesses

But it's been law for over a year now so they should be getting the basics right.

As if they are failing on the basics it's very likely a claim for illegal deductions would go against the agency / umbrella and there are firms(at least one) happy to facilitate those claims on the cheap.

Hi, which firms are likely to do this? I have a scenario where I was never given a KID and the company were found guilty of a breach by EAS, now I’m trying to reclaim the loss of earnings because they effectively sold me a lemon in terms of not being clear about downstream deductions to the tune of about £10k.

Many thanks

[eek]

Quoting a net rate is confusing as it isn't clear what the "net rate" means. I would always assume it is a gross rate. On contracts where I was "employed" in Switzerland for example the rates were always quoted gross, and then they'd give you an estimate of your net pay.

Which is what the Key Information document is supposed to be. It basically says this is what you will receive when we pay you this way.

[eek]

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ent-businesses

But it's been law for over a year now so they should be getting the basics right.

As if they are failing on the basics it's very likely a claim for illegal deductions would go against the agency / umbrella and there are firms(at least one) happy to facilitate those claims on the cheap.

[achilles]

Not sure what the rate being advertised means - ask for the Key Information Document.

It really is very simple...

Hi eek,

Can I ask what is this Key Information Document? Can you point me to an example online? No agent I have spoken to mentioned this KID document, when I ask them what the net rate would be they are clueless. Are agents legally required to give us this KID document upon request? I have agents scheduling interviews for me without myself knowing what my net rate would be. I do not want to wast mine or the client's time.

[BlasterBates]

Quoting a net rate is confusing as it isn't clear what the "net rate" means. I would always assume it is a gross rate. On contracts where I was "employed" in Switzerland for example the rates were always quoted gross, and then they'd give you an estimate of your net pay.

[cwah]

If it not 2 pages max with a clear table showing how you pay works (starting at umbrella rate and finishing at take home pay) it's not a Key Information Document

I've received an assignment schedule. I assume it might be that. Anyway, even if I could I wouldn't do that because I'm an honest chap

[eek]

I received some term of works contract that is 10 page long. I'm sure they've wrote it all down

If it not 2 pages max with a clear table showing how you pay works (starting at umbrella rate and finishing at take home pay) it's not a Key Information Document

[cwah]

You do need to receive a KID - as if you haven't got one and you haven't asked any questions you have a valid justification to claim that the Employer NI is being illegally deducted and Umbrellareclaim would be happy to add your case to all their others.

I received some term of works contract that is 10 page long. I'm sure they've wrote it all down

[eek]

Yes that's my understanding as well. That's why I say it's always gross pay, you don't need the KID to know it's assignment rate.

You do need to receive a KID - as if you haven't got one and you haven't asked any questions you have a valid justification to claim that the Employer NI is being illegally deducted and Umbrellareclaim would be happy to add your case to all their others.

[cwah]

Anything that doesn't specify it's a PAYE rate is always going to be a Assignment Rate (the HMRC approved term for what would be advertised as Umbrella / Inside IR35 rate).

If you want to hit the jackpot you want an agency / umbrella that forgets to give you a Key Information Document prior to you starting work (I really don't get how agencies / umbrellas can screw that simple step up).

Yes that's my understanding as well. That's why I say it's always gross pay, you don't need the KID to know it's assignment rate.

[eek]

I never said I'm good. But I have to admit I refuse almost all inside IR35 roles. I talked to them hoping that some would pay employer NIC but it never happened. After 10 it's enough to say it's an industry trend.

I have yet to find one that pays it. Maybe I'll change my mind then

Anything that doesn't specify it's a PAYE rate is always going to be a Assignment Rate (the HMRC approved term for what would be advertised as Umbrella / Inside IR35 rate).

If you want to hit the jackpot you want an agency / umbrella that forgets to give you a Key Information Document prior to you starting work (I really don't get how agencies / umbrellas can screw that simple step up).

[cwah]

You got as far as speaking to an agent for 10+ inside IR35 roles and only got 1 of them - you really aren't that good.

I never said I'm good. But I have to admit I refuse almost all inside IR35 roles. I talked to them hoping that some would pay employer NIC but it never happened. After 10 it's enough to say it's an industry trend.

I have yet to find one that pays it. Maybe I'll change my mind then

[eek]

I've been checking for maybe 10+ Inside IR35 roles and they were all rate before employer NI. I stopped asking because it's just a waste of time.


and eek, I've never met any recruiter who mentioned assignment rate. They probably don't know what it is. However I stopped asking the same thing over and over again because it's the same result.

You got as far as speaking to an agent for 10+ inside IR35 roles and only got 1 of them - you really aren't that good.

[cwah]

Ehhhhh.....that's not entirely true. Salaries are never advertised gross of employers NICs, apprenticeship levy and employers pensions contributions.

What you said is correct, but it doesn't make mine incorrect. Salary are never gross of employer NIC as well as never advertised as net pay