Reply to: WFH (mostly) for a client in Ireland

[northernladyuk]

Yeah that's fair enough - it's a 1hr 40 commute and I've 'priced in' the expense as such.

Would it be advisable for me to contact HMRC directly to get some clarification on the situation or best work through an accountant/agent? I've one lined up to do my end of year UK return, but not finding them particularly helpful.

Have a look at cross border workers sites as well. There may be the opportunity to declare some work in Irelan dand some in UK depending on location of work and use both sets of tax allowances.

[nedk87]

This is correct.

There are some allowances for removal expenses and the first three months if moving.

Removal and relocation expenses

Yeah that's fair enough - it's a 1hr 40 commute and I've 'priced in' the expense as such.

Would it be advisable for me to contact HMRC directly to get some clarification on the situation or best work through an accountant/agent? I've one lined up to do my end of year UK return, but not finding them particularly helpful.

[Old Greg]

If you're moving to the Republic anyway then the Irish based Umbrella probably makes sense but I'd want to be sure that Hmrc were happy that the Irish Revenue were getting first dibs taxing work done in the UK.

If you're not moving for a while keep in mind travel expenses may not be allowed under the Irish Umbrella as your regular place of work would probably be considered the client's office (this is what I was advised anyway).

This is correct.

There are some allowances for removal expenses and the first three months if moving.

Removal and relocation expenses

[Smoggy]

If you're moving to the Republic anyway then the Irish based Umbrella probably makes sense but I'd want to be sure that Hmrc were happy that the Irish Revenue were getting first dibs taxing work done in the UK.

If you're not moving for a while keep in mind travel expenses may not be allowed under the Irish Umbrella as your regular place of work would probably be considered the client's office (this is what I was advised anyway).

[nedk87]

Where is the agency? Their viewpoint makes perfect sense if they are based in Ireland.

Agency is based in Ireland. Yeah I can understand why the accountant wants to go the straightforward route, but nevertheless, their advice should be fit for purpose.

[eek]

Thanks for the link and info.

Icon are suggesting that there will be no problem with me operating under the director umbrella while WFH in the UK in combination with commuting to Dublin - the Irish Govt are allowing some flexibility due to Covid restrictions. They've also suggested that no significant additional tax should be due when I go to self-assess with HMRC. All parties (Icon and the recruitment consultant) have tried to dissuade me from going the UK Ltd. route.

Doesn't really tie-in with what I'm seeing here!

I've signed up with Icon, but won't be invoicing until the end of the month, so there may be some wriggle room to move if needs be.

In terms of pension, I'm hoping to move to ROI in the near future and live there long term - I'm fairly sure that NI contributions can just be transferred.

Where is the agency? Their viewpoint makes perfect sense if they are based in Ireland.

[nedk87]

Director Umbrellas are standard when working in Ireland and Icon are reputable. I myself used Fenero and they were straight forward to use with reasonable fees. My main client is still in Ireland but as I now work remotely from the UK I invoice via my UK limited (no VAT charged) and my accountant has advised I can continue with this setup after Brexit too.

I think the complication would be if I spent >30 days working in RoI. I think the advice is to set up Irish payroll for the days worked when in Ireland only. I don't know how to do this but Icon on or Fenero could probably help. I would not have thought switching between an Irish Umbrella and UK limited would work as presumably the contract is only with one of those companies? Unless there's subcontracting going on?

Also HMRC may not like everything going through Irish umbrella if any of the work is done in the UK as they would miss out on tax due to double taxation treaty and earnings being taxed at source in Dublin even though work done in UK.

Sticking with UK Ltd but using Irish payroll for days worked in Ireland may also have the additional benefit of earning you PRSI contributions towards the fairly decent Irish state pension? I'm only guessing here though.

Useful link: Contracting in Ireland with a UK Limited Company | Fenero personal tax services

Thanks for the link and info.

Icon are suggesting that there will be no problem with me operating under the director umbrella while WFH in the UK in combination with commuting to Dublin - the Irish Govt are allowing some flexibility due to Covid restrictions. They've also suggested that no significant additional tax should be due when I go to self-assess with HMRC. All parties (Icon and the recruitment consultant) have tried to dissuade me from going the UK Ltd. route.

Doesn't really tie-in with what I'm seeing here!

I've signed up with Icon, but won't be invoicing until the end of the month, so there may be some wriggle room to move if needs be.

In terms of pension, I'm hoping to move to ROI in the near future and live there long term - I'm fairly sure that NI contributions can just be transferred.

[Old Greg]

Director Umbrellas are standard when working in Ireland and Icon are reputable. I myself used Fenero and they were straight forward to use with reasonable fees. My main client is still in Ireland but as I now work remotely from the UK I invoice via my UK limited (no VAT charged) and my accountant has advised I can continue with this setup after Brexit too.

I think the complication would be if I spent >30 days working in RoI. I think the advice is to set up Irish payroll for the days worked when in Ireland only. I don't know how to do this but Icon on or Fenero could probably help. I would not have thought switching between an Irish Umbrella and UK limited would work as presumably the contract is only with one of those companies? Unless there's subcontracting going on?

Also HMRC may not like everything going through Irish umbrella if any of the work is done in the UK as they would miss out on tax due to double taxation treaty and earnings being taxed at source in Dublin even though work done in UK.

Sticking with UK Ltd but using Irish payroll for days worked in Ireland may also have the additional benefit of earning you PRSI contributions towards the fairly decent Irish state pension? I'm only guessing here though.

Useful link: Contracting in Ireland with a UK Limited Company | Fenero personal tax services

I have a UK based subbie who is working as you describe. If he needs to be on site as Covid abates, it will get complex if >30 days.

There is probably a minimum no of weeks PRSI contribution to qualify for Irish pension but you may be able to transfer them to UK NIC contribution equivalents for pension purposes. Not as good a pension though!

[Smoggy]

Director Umbrellas are standard when working in Ireland and Icon are reputable. I myself used Fenero and they were straight forward to use with reasonable fees. My main client is still in Ireland but as I now work remotely from the UK I invoice via my UK limited (no VAT charged) and my accountant has advised I can continue with this setup after Brexit too.

I think the complication would be if I spent >30 days working in RoI. I think the advice is to set up Irish payroll for the days worked when in Ireland only. I don't know how to do this but Icon on or Fenero could probably help. I would not have thought switching between an Irish Umbrella and UK limited would work as presumably the contract is only with one of those companies? Unless there's subcontracting going on?

Also HMRC may not like everything going through Irish umbrella if any of the work is done in the UK as they would miss out on tax due to double taxation treaty and earnings being taxed at source in Dublin even though work done in UK.

Sticking with UK Ltd but using Irish payroll for days worked in Ireland may also have the additional benefit of earning you PRSI contributions towards the fairly decent Irish state pension? I'm only guessing here though.

Useful link: Contracting in Ireland with a UK Limited Company | Fenero personal tax services

[nedk87]

Thanks for the replies - it's always good to have a healthy dose of skepticism.
I'm still a small bit weary that HMRC won't look kindly on the whole setup once I go to submit my self assessment later in the year, but no professional I spoken with shares the worry, so best taken them at face value.

[northernladyuk]

Direct umbrella company setup | Icon Accounting - Accountancy Services for Contractors

This is the most tax effective, cost effective and compliant way to contract in Ireland if you do not intend to do anything with your company in addition to daily rate contracting. Beyond that, it's more complex. Icon are good.

[eek]

On the face of it I don't like the sound of that. I'll kick Lucy out of the shower and get her to come and comment.

The Republic of Ireland is a different country with different tax rules.

And that accountancy firm is in the Republic

[northernladuk]

Cheers - From a quick scan of similar threads it seems to be recognised by others who have worked in Ireland!

True so maybe I shouldn't have commented. Being a director rather than just straight employee starts ringing alarm bells what with all the umbrella schemes but maybe this one is legit. My bad if it is.

[nedk87]

On the face of it I don't like the sound of that. I'll kick Lucy out of the shower and get her to come and comment.

Cheers - From a quick scan of similar threads it seems to be recognised by others who have worked in Ireland!

[northernladuk]

Direct umbrella company setup | Icon Accounting - Accountancy Services for Contractors

On the face of it I don't like the sound of that. I'll kick Lucy out of the shower and get her to come and comment.