Reply to: Requesting Changes to notice periods

[TheDogsNads]

My thinking here is if you get 3 months, and they get rid of you say at 1 week notice, then you can at least reclaim the money back via breach of contract?

Is 1 month notice really an IR35 issue for a 6 month gig? 1 month isn't really that long tbh.

Edit - to clarify I think there may be a chance of success with the FTC but not so much with the outside ir35 gig.

[jayn200]

Have regular chuckles at ClientCo about how a Senior Director is just a low level manager and a VP is a bit further up the food chain.

EDIT: this is not in Finance but is a US-owned company

Yeah i had an interview at paypal once and they had a senior director who had no direct reports. I always thought that was weird.. what exactly were they directing? Themselves i guess?

I know in advertising everyone is a director as well.

And yeah a vp in finance is completely meaningless. İt's just given as part of an annual review without any change in role or responsibility.

[mjcp]

Some people I worked with at the last gig were given notice 6 months into the 18 month FTC.


18 month gig, 1 month symmetrical notice, via large employment agency.

6 months in a few were canned...
Some had been extended beyond the initial 18 months...
1 left of his own accord (with 1 month notice) midway through...


So XXmo FTC is just a number.. don't read too much into it! ask for what you want and know what you will take... as with any negotiation.

M

[northernladuk]

My thinking here is if you get 3 months, and they get rid of you say at 1 week notice, then you can at least reclaim the money back via breach of contract?

Is 1 month notice really an IR35 issue for a 6 month gig? 1 month isn't really that long tbh.

Edit - to clarify I think there may be a chance of success with the FTC but not so much with the outside ir35 gig.

Ah.. in that case you'd be wrong. They can get rid of you quite legally without breach. So your exercise is pointless.

Very unlikely they will change notice periods on FTCs. Being a job it's not as flexible as a contract.

[eek]

AVP was a great film!

So was Cowboys vs Aliens once you ignore the sheer stupidity of the idea.

[ladymuck]

Job titles are weird for US firms. Quite often I come across Hedge Funds & Private Equity firms and their job title for a senior hire (10yrs exp.) is "X Analyst", whereas other firms would call the same role VP, SVP, Manager or Director. Whether job titles matter is debateable, depends on the hiring manager I suppose.

Come to think of it when I worked as a junior for a European Investment Bank some years ago, my job title was AVP. And I thought, this seems a little odd.

AVP was a great film!

[sira]

Have regular chuckles at ClientCo about how a Senior Director is just a low level manager and a VP is a bit further up the food chain.

EDIT: this is not in Finance but is a US-owned company

Job titles are weird for US firms. Quite often I come across Hedge Funds & Private Equity firms and their job title for a senior hire (10yrs exp.) is "X Analyst", whereas other firms would call the same role VP, SVP, Manager or Director. Whether job titles matter is debateable, depends on the hiring manager I suppose.

Come to think of it when I worked as a junior for a European Investment Bank some years ago, my job title was AVP. And I thought, this seems a little odd.

[ladymuck]

No offence but at Canary Wharf, pretty much everyone is a VP including the receptionist who issues replacement ID, isn't it?

Have regular chuckles at ClientCo about how a Senior Director is just a low level manager and a VP is a bit further up the food chain.

EDIT: this is not in Finance but is a US-owned company

[sira]

No offence but at Canary Wharf, pretty much everyone is a VP including the receptionist who issues replacement ID, isn't it?

Lol. The world is much bigger than canary wharf

I've worked at the big shops, and never had the displeasure of working in canary wharf tbh.

[BigDataPro]

No offence but at Canary Wharf, pretty much everyone is a VP including the receptionist who issues replacement ID, isn't it?

[sira]

FTC you want symmetrical notice periods and as long as possible as you have Mutual Obligation for them to pay you and for you to turn up.

Outside IR35 don't even think about asking - there is no Mutual Obligation to offer you work to do so you could have a 2 year notice period and they don't need to find or give you any work.

They can tell you there's no work and won't sign your timesheet because they've not given you any work to do. Why pay a temp resource to essentially take gardening leave? Your contract will have a clause about no payment without a signed timesheet (or words to that effect).

This is what NLUK was saying about notice periods being pointless. There will always be a way to get rid of you at whatever notice they want.

Got it. So in effect FTC's are probably a better option at the moment, to provide a bit of a safety net amongst the chaos. Subject to contract, of course.

[ladymuck]

My thinking here is if you get 3 months, and they get rid of you say at 1 week notice, then you can at least reclaim the money back via breach of contract?

Is 1 month notice really an IR35 issue for a 6 month gig? 1 month isn't really that long tbh.

Edit - to clarify I think there may be a chance of success with the FTC but not so much with the outside ir35 gig.

They can tell you there's no work and won't sign your timesheet because they've not given you any work to do. Why pay a temp resource to essentially take gardening leave? Your contract will have a clause about no payment without a signed timesheet (or words to that effect).

This is what NLUK was saying about notice periods being pointless. There will always be a way to get rid of you at whatever notice they want.

[eek]

FTC you want symmetrical notice periods and as long as possible as you have Mutual Obligation for them to pay you and for you to turn up.

Outside IR35 don't even think about asking - there is no Mutual Obligation to offer you work to do so you could have a 2 year notice period and they don't need to find or give you any work.

[sira]

Notice periods are pointless to us. They just don't give us work a d we don't get paid as per the contract..

Banks aren't going to give flexible resources 3 months notice either. It goes against the point of the flexible resource.

Notice periods that long are an IR35 issue as well.

If you are via an agent it's the agent you are asking for a notice period. They could out any rubbish in knowing it doesn't mean anything. You'll only get paid for the work you do and only if the client pays them.

I see you mention FTC. That's a completely different beast to an outside IR35 contract.

My thinking here is if you get 3 months, and they get rid of you say at 1 week notice, then you can at least reclaim the money back via breach of contract?

Is 1 month notice really an IR35 issue for a 6 month gig? 1 month isn't really that long tbh.

Edit - to clarify I think there may be a chance of success with the FTC but not so much with the outside ir35 gig.

[Amanensia]

I quite often ask for changes to notice periods; I ask for none (although if they insist, I'm quite happy for it to be asymmetric - I have to give notice, while they don't.)

It reflects the nature of contracting, as an extremely flexible resource; at the end of the day if they don't want or need me any more, I don't want to be there. Not that, in 20 years, I've ever left a contract early.

FTC is a different kettle of fish entirely. I'd expect permie-style symmetric notice periods.