Reply to: Asked what's your day rate?

[jmo21]

I mostly push back on the agent when asked that by asking for the rate range.

I don't want to set the market rate and undersell myself. I'd prefer them to tell me what range is likely for their client (and yes, they may well lie, and yes this includes their take).

All the market research I have is speaking to agents, and seeing contract ad's online. I sometimes discuss with other contractor friends.

Also, it's difficult to know where to place my rate after being off the market for a year, and you also don't know how busy the market is (how many contractors looking in my skillset).

I don't want to undersell, but equally don't want to oversell either.

[jayn200]

Work it out. What will it cost YourCo to do the contract. What do you need in your bank account at the end of the month to pay the bills. Add 40% to cover the taxes. Add the cost of travel and accommodation. You now have a minimum rate.

Add 50% to make a profit giving the minimum acceptable rate. The gap between that and adding 100% is your negotiation space.

You're a business. Think like one.

I don't know if I agree with this. You're much better off going with a market pricing strategy rather than a cost plus based strategy when you're talking about skilled services rather than goods. Especially when you're talking about a 1 director entity who isn't subcontracting out any work.

Do some research figure out what the market rate is, then adjust from there. Make an adjustment up or down depending on how easy it is for you to secure a different contract. If this is the only opportunity you have then price a little lower, if the skills your company provides are highly in demand and you can't efficiently or don't want to subcontract out the work then price up. You can make other adjustments as necessary.

In OPs particular situation the other thing to be aware of is who else is being considered to take the work. It would be great if you can figure out if they are evaluating you against other contractors with minimal overheads who might be available for £500 day rate (just an average figure) or if the other option is contracting the services of a larger multi employee service company with high overheads which will probably contract out for £1000 a day (again another average figure). If you're clever you will be able to coax this information out of them on the phone.

I do agree that you should think like a business but this also means understanding the commercial side of the business and not just trying to engineer your way to the right price with a cost plus based approach.

[AnthonyQuinn]

I've been in discussion via a business related social networking platform about a project with a non-agent customer. They're keen to setup a call, however I'm being asked my day rate. This is a successful retailer in London, not cash strapped indy bookshop only selling niche manuals on vintage bike repair. on the outskirts of Llandudno.

Would you put down your cards and just show your numbers? £500 600, 700? Risk of course is you either price yourself out or cheap yourself in. My skills/background should hold the inherent value and if it's purely a numbers game I might suggest a trip down to B+M Home Bargains for IT devs. Either way, they're probably making a direct approach to save on recruiters £££££££££££

Gut instinct is to have the call first, then discuss the rate...

If you were a bigger company, say Accenture, would you not have a rate card?

[DevUK]

You do understand that everything is a negotiation and you shouldn't just throw numbers around. Assuming that both sides know where the market stands, agent has more information on the role than you do.
Priced too high and you won't be considered, priced to low and you are missing out. What you say will be used against you.

It is a good negotiation technique to let the other side show their hand first and only that was I am implying. You are free to do whatever you want afterwords but it is more likely to go your way if you do like the role.

Either I did not express myself correctly or yourself and the other guy don't have a clue what you are talking.

Your approach wouldn't apply if you were talking about running most businesses other than the business of a perm in disguise (coming from someone who has recently gone perm!).

For example if you were a tiler, plumber, solicitor, sports coach, retail, practically any other 'real' business it wouldn't be appropriate to start negotiating once the customer had already provided adequate detail.

The market is on it's arse because people are so far removed from composing themselves like a real business.

I am still trading through my ltd, client gives me requirements, I provide quote, they provide a purchase order, I get cracking and I invoice when everybody's happy. If you're concerned about pricing yourself out/in, change your price.

[GigiBronz]

This is an approach to contracting I can't stand. People please please treat this as a business to business engagement. Ladymuck had it absolutely spot on. You have all the details you need in order to put a quote together. Operate like a business and put a quote together!!

You do understand that everything is a negotiation and you shouldn't just throw numbers around. Assuming that both sides know where the market stands, agent has more information on the role than you do.
Priced too high and you won't be considered, priced to low and you are missing out. What you say will be used against you.

It is a good negotiation technique to let the other side show their hand first and only that was I am implying. You are free to do whatever you want afterwords but it is more likely to go your way if you do like the role.

Either I did not express myself correctly or yourself and the other guy don't have a clue what you are talking.

[LondonManc]

I've been in discussion via a business related social networking platform about a project with a non-agent customer. They're keen to setup a call, however I'm being asked my day rate. This is a successful retailer in London, not cash strapped indy bookshop only selling niche manuals on vintage bike repair. on the outskirts of Llandudno.

Would you put down your cards and just show your numbers? £500 600, 700? Risk of course is you either price yourself out or cheap yourself in. My skills/background should hold the inherent value and if it's purely a numbers game I might suggest a trip down to B+M Home Bargains for IT devs. Either way, they're probably making a direct approach to save on recruiters £££££££££££

Gut instinct is to have the call first, then discuss the rate...

If the wife asks, £175.

Your price should reflect the job to be done. You don't know the complexities of the role and how much of your brain and skillset will be used.

[BritishLad88]

This is an approach to contracting I can't stand. People please please treat this as a business to business engagement. Ladymuck had it absolutely spot on. You have all the details you need in order to put a quote together. Operate like a business and put a quote together!!

+1

if only our contracting industry had more contractors like you then contracting in UK would be in a better place.

if anything, I blame the contractors who wants to behave like a permie but operate within this contracting model to gain financial adv. Or maybe I should blame the big banks who started all this fake contracting way of working in the first place.

[DevUK]

you say you haven't contracted for decades, and you're telling people they're doing it wrong?

Rather tenuous argument, that one, isn't it.

You don't need to have done something for decades to have an opinion on how it should be done. 4 years is enough time for me to form an opinion thanks.

Keep digging about in my profile if you have the spare time, there might be a genuine 'conflict' you can find.

[BR14]

you say you haven't contracted for decades, and you're telling people they're doing it wrong?

[DevUK]

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...t=#post2728423

really?
a bit of a conflict here, no??

Where's the conflict? What are you talking about?

[BR14]

This is an approach to contracting I can't stand.!

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...t=#post2728423

really?
a bit of a conflict here, no??

[DevUK]

It is a negotiation, ask them to show their hand first then take it from there.
Considering the cost and effort of finding someone else they might be more inclined to reveal a better range.
If they have plenty to choose from they are looking for the cheapest but then depends on how much you want it.
They might ask for contact details afterwards to put you down a bit over the phone than ask for the rate. Have a reasonable figure in mind and a nice to have one and then based on how it looks throw the one out that seems more appropriate.
But you are the only person knowing your circumstances.

This is an approach to contracting I can't stand. People please please treat this as a business to business engagement. Ladymuck had it absolutely spot on. You have all the details you need in order to put a quote together. Operate like a business and put a quote together!!

[malvolio]

Work it out. What will it cost YourCo to do the contract. What do you need in your bank account at the end of the month to pay the bills. Add 40% to cover the taxes. Add the cost of travel and accommodation. You now have a minimum rate.

Add 50% to make a profit giving the minimum acceptable rate. The gap between that and adding 100% is your negotiation space.

You're a business. Think like one.

[GigiBronz]

It is a negotiation, ask them to show their hand first then take it from there.
Considering the cost and effort of finding someone else they might be more inclined to reveal a better range.
If they have plenty to choose from they are looking for the cheapest but then depends on how much you want it.
They might ask for contact details afterwards to put you down a bit over the phone than ask for the rate. Have a reasonable figure in mind and a nice to have one and then based on how it looks throw the one out that seems more appropriate.
But you are the only person knowing your circumstances.

[Lance]

WLMS



or say between 600 and 850 dependant on commercial factors.

Where 600 is next door to home, turn up when you want, all expenses paid and weekly payments.
And 850 is 200 miles away, on site 3 days a week, no expenses and monthly payments.