Reply to: One rule for contractors another for permanent staff

[northernladuk]

Sick pay depends on your contract. SSP is all you can claim and only once you've been off more than 4 days.

Yep. So everything else is a benefit from the employer which can vary but it all.comes out of the permies wage at some point.

[LondonManc]

You do get holiday pay, and I'd guess sick... And you have some rights from the brolly.. So not strictly true.

Sick pay depends on your contract. SSP is all you can claim and only once you've been off more than 4 days.

[northernladuk]

Well not really holiday pay. They lump it all into the weekly pay. They don't pay you if you't work sick or otherwise.

I guess you could get SSP though.

Not many rights.....

So what you are mixing up it's rights and benefits. All permies pay for their holidays in the long run. CSC did a thing many years ago with a flex options offering. They gave you your wage gross and you picked your benefits from a catalogue. What happened is people saw their wage double, happy days, but didn't realise they then had to buy all the benefits they got before, pension, holidays, insurances etc and lo and behold when they bought the same holidays, pension their wage went back to what it was before. As you can imagine it had the feckless absolutely wailing as they thought they could get their money gross.

Permies pay for their holidays as well, they just get a wage net of it. The fact you see how much your holiday pay costs you in brolly is the difference.

[psychocandy]

You do get holiday pay, and I'd guess sick... And you have some rights from the brolly.. So not strictly true.

Well not really holiday pay. They lump it all into the weekly pay. They don't pay you if you't work sick or otherwise.

I guess you could get SSP though.

Not many rights.....

[northernladuk]

OK. Im inside IR35 via umbrella. I get taxed like the permies do. I have no rights, sick pay or holiday pay etc.

I do get 3x what they get paid though. Up to me to decide if its worth it or not surely?

You do get holiday pay, and I'd guess sick... And you have some rights from the brolly.. So not strictly true.

[psychocandy]

I wouldn't know. But denying people rights granted in law usually is illegal.

I'll quote it again, since you probably replied after I added it.

As a result, contractors and freelancers are being forced into "zero rights employment", where they will be taxed as permanent employees, but not receive any of the standard benefits.

That's from the letter handed in last week. So tell me, is zero rights employment legal or illegal?

OK. Im inside IR35 via umbrella. I get taxed like the permies do. I have no rights, sick pay or holiday pay etc.

I do get 3x what they get paid though. Up to me to decide if its worth it or not surely?

[psychocandy]

I've been enjoying a few years off, but back with a new exciting contract. So just getting back up to speed with everything.

Why would anyone accept an inside IR35 job, in other words you are an employee of the company, but with no rights of employment. Why?? And perhaps a bigger question, how is that even slightly legal, and why hasn't it been challenged and laughed out of the court? None of the perks of being a contractor and none of the benefits of being an employee. Wow. Just wow.



NLUK how are you still here all these years later saying the exact same things? Don't you get bored?

MONEY obviously?

[psychocandy]

Good luck after you leave your current client then.....

2nd time ever nluk is right.

Stroll into next client and say "you can't tell me I can't WFH" and I can GUARANTEE you won't last long....

[ladymuck]

I wouldn't know. But denying people rights granted in law usually is illegal.

I'll quote it again, since you probably replied after I added it.

As a result, contractors and freelancers are being forced into "zero rights employment", where they will be taxed as permanent employees, but not receive any of the standard benefits.

That's from the letter handed in last week. So tell me, is zero rights employment legal or illegal?

Zero hours contracts have existed for a long time too and don't exactly come with an abundance of rights either. Are going to champion the cause of the deliveroo driver / Hermes courier, etc. too?

No-one is saying it's unfair but unfair does not mean illegal.

Contractors choose to forego employment rights because they're happy to make their own arrangements and the rate usually compensates for that. It has always been that benefits and tax are separate and this change in who determines your status doesn't change that in the slightest.

IR35 hasn't changed - who determines your status has.

[Finance Contractor]

Is it ever too late to speak out against injustice?

I think its too late in your mind as I defeated your arguments with industry quotes confirming my point. haha

The only injustice here would be if people like you got your way and there was a denial that a thing called contracting existed in any form.

Not sure why people that have this very problem don’t just get a perm job. I suspect it is down to earning more than perms in a day rate but then wanting more.

[BR14]

it's another troll imo

[WTFH]

Is that really your argument, that we can discriminate on employment rights, because people can choose to work elsewhere? Sorry but back in the real world, that's not how the legal framework of this country works or probably any country.

A contractor is someone who chooses which contracts to take on and which to reject - based on what they should consider is good business sense.
If you’re wanting to stay working for one company for a few years, doing very similar things to the employees, then you’re not really contracting.
That’s the real world for real contractors.

...but your posts make it seem that you’re not wanting to be a real contractor.

[escapeUK]

Bit late in the day to be raging against the machine and trying to fix the world isn't it? We've been having the types of posts from as far back as October.

Is it ever too late to speak out against injustice?

I think its too late in your mind as I defeated your arguments with industry quotes confirming my point. haha

[northernladuk]

Bit late in the day to be raging against the machine and trying to fix the world isn't it? We've been having the types of posts from as far back as October.

[escapeUK]

Tell me, are you forced to be a contractor and forced to accept roles, or is it your choice?

Is that really your argument, that we can discriminate on employment rights, because people can choose to work elsewhere? Sorry but back in the real world, that's not how the legal framework of this country works or probably any country.