Negotiating a contract based on project scope

[GhostofTarbera]

How do people negotiate a scope of deliverables based contract? Most clients are used to the 3/6 month based time contracts so interested to hear how these discussions move into a deliverables based contract which of course will help with IR35 status.

Are many clients receptive to it?

Is the contract still charged on a time and materials basis?

How vague/defined are the deliverables?

Any stories of people getting caught out under-estimating the effort required for a fixed price deliverable?

What has been the status of your past contacts ? Did you review yourself for

“Most clients are used to the 3/6 month based time contract”

Outside or inside
?


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[WTFH]

How do people negotiate a scope of deliverables based contract? Most clients are used to the 3/6 month based time contracts so interested to hear how these discussions move into a deliverables based contract which of course will help with IR35 status.

OK, back it up here a bit.
“Deliverables based” or “Project based”?

Most of my work is project based. I’m brought in for a particular project.
My contract might be 3/6/12 months, but it is for a project. If that project takes longer, the contract is extended. If the project is shorter or is canned, then so is my contract.
The contract doesn’t specify “successful delivery” or anything like that.

[edison]

i don't care whether clients are receptive. At first renewal I always get the agency to update the deliverables to reflect any changes to the original scope.



Yes. I would entertain fixed price but unless you're experienced in negotiating these, and the payment milestones, don't touch with a bargepole.


They need to be clear enough to stand up to scrutiny. But seeing as the scrutiny will be done by people who aren't IT they may seem vague to you.


I've never met a contractor who has done fixed price. There are plenty of big companies who really mess this up though and they (allegedly) know what they're doing.



In general fixed price is not worth doing. Very few clients are mature enough ti cope with it. Those that are are likely to pull your pants down. Scope is really important, and as soone as there is even a tiny dispute in scope you could end up spending days (at your loss) negotiating whether it is part of the fixed price or whether it should be T&M.


It's perfectly possible to have clear deliverables anda tight scope and still bill T&M.

Definitely agree on getting the deliverables updated at renewal time. Unfortunately some clients/agents are not really on the ball with this. I once had the words 'IT Consultant' listed as the only deliverable of an assignment.

[Lance]

How do people negotiate a scope of deliverables based contract? Most clients are used to the 3/6 month based time contracts so interested to hear how these discussions move into a deliverables based contract which of course will help with IR35 status.

Are many clients receptive to it?

i don't care whether clients are receptive. At first renewal I always get the agency to update the deliverables to reflect any changes to the original scope.

Is the contract still charged on a time and materials basis?

Yes. I would entertain fixed price but unless you're experienced in negotiating these, and the payment milestones, don't touch with a bargepole.

How vague/defined are the deliverables?

They need to be clear enough to stand up to scrutiny. But seeing as the scrutiny will be done by people who aren't IT they may seem vague to you.

Any stories of people getting caught out under-estimating the effort required for a fixed price deliverable?

I've never met a contractor who has done fixed price. There are plenty of big companies who really mess this up though and they (allegedly) know what they're doing.



In general fixed price is not worth doing. Very few clients are mature enough ti cope with it. Those that are are likely to pull your pants down. Scope is really important, and as soone as there is even a tiny dispute in scope you could end up spending days (at your loss) negotiating whether it is part of the fixed price or whether it should be T&M.


It's perfectly possible to have clear deliverables anda tight scope and still bill T&M.

[JoJoGabor]

How do people negotiate a scope of deliverables based contract? Most clients are used to the 3/6 month based time contracts so interested to hear how these discussions move into a deliverables based contract which of course will help with IR35 status.

Are many clients receptive to it?

Is the contract still charged on a time and materials basis?

How vague/defined are the deliverables?

Any stories of people getting caught out under-estimating the effort required for a fixed price deliverable?