Reply to: Advice on whether to stick with contract role or to take permanent role

[Bonaqua]

A little saying in contracting might be useful here. You are only as good as your last gig. That's as far as an agent will usually read. If that last gig does not exactly match the one you are going for then you'll get dropped. There will be plenty that do.

Once you've got his interest he'll look back to see if you've got years doing the same one. If you don't it's likely the next person will.

There is no crossover in contracting really.

Yes, a recruiter advised that he only looks at the last 4 to 5 years and as you say the last role is the most important.

[Bonaqua]

Similar to @northernladuk I am of the opinion you should take your permanent career as far as you can then consider cashing in contracting.

We do live in interesting times at the moment and while Contractors are currently feeling the squeeze we have historically been the outriders of bad times because we are the easiest to get rid of and not replace (although on the upside we are quite easy to get in when an upturn happens).

Are you prepared for potentially sitting at home for several months watching your money whittle down? Can you cope with seeing opportunities slow down a trickle and having to stand out among several hundred applicants when one does appear? I am painting a dark picture but a lot of people have had this experience, some at the moment.

It did take me 5 months to find the contract role and then the perm role came along soon after, so I can see that the market isn't great at the moment - in the past it so would take around half the time to find a new role, but then I come from a perm background.

[Bonaqua]

Risks:
1. You hate the perm job and can only stomach it for six months.
2. You take the perm job and six months later they've lost a lot of money because of Brexit or something else and they let you go.
3. You stay with the contract and can't get another one when it is done, and there's no perm jobs available because everyone went perm to avoid IR35.
4. You stay with the contract, you get ruled inside IR35, and you end up having to pay IR35 taxes for the whole life of the contract.
5. You stay with the contract and they lose money (Brexit or something else) and they let you go just after the perm job gets filled.
6. You stay with the contract and get stuck at the level you are at, and always regret that you never took the chance to upgrade your skills. The chance never comes along again, and you can't afford it anyway, because you've committed yourself to a bigger property, so you can't drop into a permie role.

There's other risks (getting stuck having to travel to your next contract when you have a young family?) but that's a good sampling. You think through the other risks, every one you can think of, the likelihood of each one, and how much they matter to you / will hurt you. Then, you list all the potential benefits, the likelihood of each one, and how much they matter to you.

If something is very unlikely but very bad, it doesn't matter as much as something that is likely but bad, but it might matter more than something that is very likely but you really don't care much about. So you just have to weight things based on both the probability and the value/importance of both the risks and the benefits.

Then, you make a decision, and don't look back. If something doesn't go the way you thought, well, you considered, you made the best decision you knew at the time, you live with it.

This is really basic decision-making. No one can tell you what is most important to you, nor can any of us assess the risks you are facing and the benefits you'll achieve. You're going to have to assess them all yourself. The most we could maybe do is point out possible benefits or drawbacks but we can't possibly know likelihood or impact. If someone tells you to go one way or another they are advising based on their values, circumstances, and experiences, not on yours. They might advise you what would be the best way for you to go but it's luck if they do.

Yes, appreciate what you are saying although I do find it useful to hear other people's thoughts, especially those who have more experience than me. Will give listing and rating the risks/benefits task a go. Thanks.

[northernladuk]

I think that's one of the main reasons I'm contemplating the perm role, whilst the contract role is as a BA it has no relevance to the agile/digital BA role perm role. So on my CV recruiters will see that I've taken a break for a year or more and done something different.

A little saying in contracting might be useful here. You are only as good as your last gig. That's as far as an agent will usually read. If that last gig does not exactly match the one you are going for then you'll get dropped. There will be plenty that do.

Once you've got his interest he'll look back to see if you've got years doing the same one. If you don't it's likely the next person will.

There is no crossover in contracting really.

[fiisch]

I had the same dilemma in reverse at a similar time of life.... Was in a cushy local perm role, but wanted to relocate and buy a bigger property to be in a nicer area, better schools etc. for my family.

Returned to contracting, bought the big house, but have the commute and the uncertainty that comes with it. Saw it as a (big) gamble, and some days (yesterday thanks to the chaos at Euston for example) I miss my daughter's bedtime and dream of a cushy perm role closer to home. Unfortunately, the nature of what I do means London working is almost an inevitability, and industry is quite backward in it's thinking so WFH options seem to be more limited than in other industries.

I can't say whether I made the right choice or not just yet - I think it depends on your attitude to risk, and what drives you first and foremost in your career. For me, have always been a risk taker and money is a big motivator. That said, am looking to reduce outgoings so the option for permanent working and potentially roles closer to home are a viable in the future....

[SussexSeagull]

Similar to @northernladuk I am of the opinion you should take your permanent career as far as you can then consider cashing in contracting.

We do live in interesting times at the moment and while Contractors are currently feeling the squeeze we have historically been the outriders of bad times because we are the easiest to get rid of and not replace (although on the upside we are quite easy to get in when an upturn happens).

Are you prepared for potentially sitting at home for several months watching your money whittle down? Can you cope with seeing opportunities slow down a trickle and having to stand out among several hundred applicants when one does appear? I am painting a dark picture but a lot of people have had this experience, some at the moment.

[WordIsBond]

Risks:
1. You hate the perm job and can only stomach it for six months.
2. You take the perm job and six months later they've lost a lot of money because of Brexit or something else and they let you go.
3. You stay with the contract and can't get another one when it is done, and there's no perm jobs available because everyone went perm to avoid IR35.
4. You stay with the contract, you get ruled inside IR35, and you end up having to pay IR35 taxes for the whole life of the contract.
5. You stay with the contract and they lose money (Brexit or something else) and they let you go just after the perm job gets filled.
6. You stay with the contract and get stuck at the level you are at, and always regret that you never took the chance to upgrade your skills. The chance never comes along again, and you can't afford it anyway, because you've committed yourself to a bigger property, so you can't drop into a permie role.

There's other risks (getting stuck having to travel to your next contract when you have a young family?) but that's a good sampling. You think through the other risks, every one you can think of, the likelihood of each one, and how much they matter to you / will hurt you. Then, you list all the potential benefits, the likelihood of each one, and how much they matter to you.

If something is very unlikely but very bad, it doesn't matter as much as something that is likely but bad, but it might matter more than something that is very likely but you really don't care much about. So you just have to weight things based on both the probability and the value/importance of both the risks and the benefits.

Then, you make a decision, and don't look back. If something doesn't go the way you thought, well, you considered, you made the best decision you knew at the time, you live with it.

This is really basic decision-making. No one can tell you what is most important to you, nor can any of us assess the risks you are facing and the benefits you'll achieve. You're going to have to assess them all yourself. The most we could maybe do is point out possible benefits or drawbacks but we can't possibly know likelihood or impact. If someone tells you to go one way or another they are advising based on their values, circumstances, and experiences, not on yours. They might advise you what would be the best way for you to go but it's luck if they do.

[Bonaqua]

I work in agile digital field in a London bank, do you like working flat out to deliver every 2 sprints, 12 hour days, people getting burned out every 6 months etc?


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No I don't, fortunately all the companies I've worked for that apply 2 week sprints have a more forgiving environment and are the opposite of what you have described. You have my sympathy though!

[GhostofTarbera]

It'll be roughly just less than half the contract salary but I'm thinking long term earning potential even though it's a lot more money in the short term. So short term pain, long term gain as the saying goes....

I work in agile digital field in a London bank, do you like working flat out to deliver every 2 sprints, 12 hour days, people getting burned out every 6 months etc?


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[Bonaqua]

Would you prefer a much better role for a third of the money you are currently on?


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It'll be roughly just less than half the contract salary but I'm thinking long term earning potential even though it's a lot more money in the short term. So short term pain, long term gain as the saying goes....

[Bonaqua]

I'm currently in a long running contract and been told there is a perm headcount freeze on and any new hires Q4/Q1 2020 will all be contract. So it's not all doom and gloom wrt contract market ... yet.

I was contract through many years of raising a young family from 2002 to now. I was very very lucky and was never out of contract. But I agree in part with northernladuk, the market is changing rapidly for the worse and coupled with Brexit...

The problem is, there is no such thing as a safe perm role either. In fact, I have seen a 50% drop in perm headcount where I am now and most of the long running contractors are still here.

As you are in contract my advice is this. I would concentrate on doing a really really good job where you are now even if that means working longer hours as a contractor. Keep your skills sharp, don't get safe and cushy and laid back and be ready for the worst. But in my experience to date, banks would rather have contractors than perms when things get choppy.
Also, if you move to perm you will be in a probation period throughout one of the most unstable periods of UK history ever. Unless, the perm role offers new skills / training in a field enjoying strong demand, I would probably stay put.

Cheers.

Unfortunately doing a really good job and keeping my skills sharp in this role won't help me secure my next role as the skills used are different to what an agile/digital BA needs. I've tried to see where the crossovers are (so that I can justify staying within the contract role and not just for the money), whilst there inevitably will be some, none are the key skills which will make my CV stand out for my next role.

[Bonaqua]

Forget what the recruiters say. A contractor with 10 years will have anything up to 20 gigs and no one will blink an eye. It has to be in the same area, so all BA roles or similar. Being a PM, BA, PMO and so on means you are no good at any one job. Might be OK if you are a permie and can sell yourself as person but not as a contractor.

I think that's one of the main reasons I'm contemplating the perm role, whilst the contract role is as a BA it has no relevance to the agile/digital BA role perm role. So on my CV recruiters will see that I've taken a break for a year or more and done something different.

[Hawkings]

Lots could be said to this so will try and keep it brief...

Firstly, as a contractor you career is selling the skills you have to clients. You'll naturally build up experience over time but generally at the same level. I would not bank on moving up through the ranks as a contractor. It can be done but it's very hit and miss. Your knowledge brings you income and that's about it. You will only get a gig that you can demonstrate you can do. Contractors do not get dream jobs they think or would like to do, they get ones that they've done before.

As a permie you have the opportunity to move around and upwards and will (in general) be supported in your moves. The person is the asset so if you can add value in other roles you'll be supported in growing.

One area is great for career growing, the other is great to make money once you've reached that level. Sadly neither does both. I am sure people will come on here and say they've started as PMO and moved in to PM and so on. It's possible but you've got to be lucky and/or good at blagging.

Forget what the recruiters say. A contractor with 10 years will have anything up to 20 gigs and no one will blink an eye. It has to be in the same area, so all BA roles or similar. Being a PM, BA, PMO and so on means you are no good at any one job. Might be OK if you are a permie and can sell yourself as person but not as a contractor.

IMO the reasons you need for the boost income are the reasons to get something more stable. You'll be getting zero income when you are between gigs and if you can't travel that could be awhile. We've a thread on here with people 2, 3 or more months out of work. Contracting does come with significant risks.

Also when you are a contract you are a supplier to a client. I'd say it's possible you'll get the opposite when it comes to flexibility. Would you be happy with your builder just buggered off just to pick the kids up? Contracting allows you flexibility to work where you want, turn crap gigs down and have more time off because of the money. It doesn't necessarily mean you can just bugger off when you fancy. Much more chance of that as perm.

Personally when I was younger I was a career monkey. I wanted to the next step up to be the best I can. It wasn't in my mind set to settle at a lower level and just plod on so I'm all for bleeding employers dry of training and experience then move on the next. When you've reached a level you are happy then go out and sell those skills at top dollar. As you say you'll make it back when you are on £100+ a day more.

Also bear in mind we've got a right crap storm coming around April 2020. It's already affecting you because you've got a contract that spans April 2020. You will need a determination about the role you are doing in the next few months and there is a possibility they'll deem you inside IR35 so you'll be paying the same taxes as a perm with absolutely no benefits. If they do judge you inside are you in a position you can quit the gig and potentially spend a long time on the bench as a raft of very experience contracts suddenly become available?
There is a bit of a saying that the smart contractors are hovering up the best perm gigs around now, come Dec/Jan every man and his dog will be scrabbling round for the same perm roles and the employers will know that.

My opinion on your situation, which is probably pretty obvious, is to take the perm gig and smash the career ladder.

I'm currently in a long running contract and been told there is a perm headcount freeze on and any new hires Q4/Q1 2020 will all be contract. So it's not all doom and gloom wrt contract market ... yet.

I was contract through many years of raising a young family from 2002 to now. I was very very lucky and was never out of contract. But I agree in part with northernladuk, the market is changing rapidly for the worse and coupled with Brexit...

The problem is, there is no such thing as a safe perm role either. In fact, I have seen a 50% drop in perm headcount where I am now and most of the long running contractors are still here.

As you are in contract my advice is this. I would concentrate on doing a really really good job where you are now even if that means working longer hours as a contractor. Keep your skills sharp, don't get safe and cushy and laid back and be ready for the worst. But in my experience to date, banks would rather have contractors than perms when things get choppy.
Also, if you move to perm you will be in a probation period throughout one of the most unstable periods of UK history ever. Unless, the perm role offers new skills / training in a field enjoying strong demand, I would probably stay put.

Cheers.

[northernladuk]

Lots could be said to this so will try and keep it brief...

Firstly, as a contractor you career is selling the skills you have to clients. You'll naturally build up experience over time but generally at the same level. I would not bank on moving up through the ranks as a contractor. It can be done but it's very hit and miss. Your knowledge brings you income and that's about it. You will only get a gig that you can demonstrate you can do. Contractors do not get dream jobs they think or would like to do, they get ones that they've done before.

As a permie you have the opportunity to move around and upwards and will (in general) be supported in your moves. The person is the asset so if you can add value in other roles you'll be supported in growing.

One area is great for career growing, the other is great to make money once you've reached that level. Sadly neither does both. I am sure people will come on here and say they've started as PMO and moved in to PM and so on. It's possible but you've got to be lucky and/or good at blagging.

Forget what the recruiters say. A contractor with 10 years will have anything up to 20 gigs and no one will blink an eye. It has to be in the same area, so all BA roles or similar. Being a PM, BA, PMO and so on means you are no good at any one job. Might be OK if you are a permie and can sell yourself as person but not as a contractor.

IMO the reasons you need for the boost income are the reasons to get something more stable. You'll be getting zero income when you are between gigs and if you can't travel that could be awhile. We've a thread on here with people 2, 3 or more months out of work. Contracting does come with significant risks.

Also when you are a contract you are a supplier to a client. I'd say it's possible you'll get the opposite when it comes to flexibility. Would you be happy with your builder just buggered off just to pick the kids up? Contracting allows you flexibility to work where you want, turn crap gigs down and have more time off because of the money. It doesn't necessarily mean you can just bugger off when you fancy. Much more chance of that as perm.

Personally when I was younger I was a career monkey. I wanted to the next step up to be the best I can. It wasn't in my mind set to settle at a lower level and just plod on so I'm all for bleeding employers dry of training and experience then move on the next. When you've reached a level you are happy then go out and sell those skills at top dollar. As you say you'll make it back when you are on £100+ a day more.

Also bear in mind we've got a right crap storm coming around April 2020. It's already affecting you because you've got a contract that spans April 2020. You will need a determination about the role you are doing in the next few months and there is a possibility they'll deem you inside IR35 so you'll be paying the same taxes as a perm with absolutely no benefits. If they do judge you inside are you in a position you can quit the gig and potentially spend a long time on the bench as a raft of very experience contracts suddenly become available?
There is a bit of a saying that the smart contractors are hovering up the best perm gigs around now, come Dec/Jan every man and his dog will be scrabbling round for the same perm roles and the employers will know that.

My opinion on your situation, which is probably pretty obvious, is to take the perm gig and smash the career ladder.

[GhostofTarbera]

Would you prefer a much better role for a third of the money you are currently on?


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