Off-Payroll draft legislation published: Government dismisses consultation concerns

[Bluenose]

Off you toddle then.

I for one look forward to the bunfights between all 12 of us that remain in the business section of this site.

[northernladuk]

General section = permietractor
Business Section = True Contractors.

Off you toddle then.

[Bluenose]

really? this isn't general, is it?

General section = permietractor
Business Section = True Contractors.

[BR14]

You are assuming all contractors are equal.

Permietractors should cost more and will cost more then before, there needs to be a penalty in using these resources.

Real contractors, specialists, expects and SME's will go on as before, with some tweaks to clearly differentiate them from aforementioned scum.

really? this isn't general, is it?

[Bluenose]

One point:-

Calls for an independent appeals process have been ignored. Instead, a new ‘client-led status disagreement process’ is to be introduced. As a result, if a contractor disputes their status assessment they can only appeal to their client, who may have an interest in their contractors being inside IR35

Why on earth would a client WANT the contractor to be inside IR35? All this means is that the contractors take home is less and, potentially, they have to pay a higher rate to attract contractors in the first place.

OK, there is always going to be an element of "just in case", and its certainly happened in the Public Sector. But of course that's unique - plenty of people who don't really care if the contractors cost more.[/QUOTE]

You are assuming all contractors are equal.

Permietractors should cost more and will cost more then before, there needs to be a penalty in using these resources.

Real contractors, specialists, expects and SME's will go on as before, with some tweaks to clearly differentiate them from aforementioned scum.

[Hobosapien]

In those areas where specialists are needed from far away, then the market can only change by forcing more of those workers to work for consultancies where the hotels & travel will be allowed tax free.

Bottom line is clients in that location based position of a restricted local talent pool will have to pay more, whether that be to a contractor looking to cover travel and accommodation costs in the contract rate or to a consultancy that will not be any cheaper if they too are covering such expenses billed back to the client.

This additional cost will be factored against the cost saving of the client being based in a cheaper location. i.e. If the client is in an area with plenty of local talent then the location is likely a costly one, such as London or another big city.

that and the ongoing unlimited printing of work visas for the Indian outsourcers to flood the country with cheap labour from India.

our political class have completely lost the plot.

Nope they are just puppets and the strings are pulled by those running companies that benefit from cheaper imported labour. For evidence, see how many directorships MPs get within big companies and later go on to get cushy jobs after leaving Parliament. Then there's the lobbying and party donations.

[CoolCat]

Okay Methuselah.

I asked a question seeking more experienced views on taking a contract in these difficult times. The responses were petty and mocking so I did not bother responding

I hope you people here know that people come here for advice. Instead it's all anger and frustration. Seeking advice does not make one naive or stupid. No need to be condescending.

Also, what's naive about my response. The market is changing..complaining will not change the fact. I am choosing to accept this situation and see how to survive in it. Yes, companies will need to either update how they hire contractors to align with IR35 or face the skills gap. Contractors are and will continue to be needed. Yes, we are about to go into a recession if the idiots.pass a no deal Brexit. It's just a fact. Brexit has also scared away a lot of EU talent...thus creating a gap we can use to our advantage.

This continuous stream of misery and condescension needs to stop.

there is a problem, since umbrellas have been stopped from paying expenses for accommodation & travel when working far away from home, and IR35 does the same, in those skills and areas where there is a ready local market of talent things may tick along. In those areas where specialists are needed from far away, then the market can only change by forcing more of those workers to work for consultancies where the hotels & travel will be allowed tax free.

that and the ongoing unlimited printing of work visas for the Indian outsourcers to flood the country with cheap labour from India.

our political class have completely lost the plot.

[ladymuck]

IR35 is not an issue if all parties behave and engage in a mature manner. Instead everyone wants to pay as little as possible (clients to contractors and HMRC) and receive as much as possible (contractors).

If the engagers could be honest about what resource they need, and contractors could be honest about their mode of operation, IR35 would not be the bogey man under the bed and HMRC would have to find another target to pick on that doesn't upset HMGs best mates

[BR14]

Okay Methuselah.


This continuous stream of misery and condescension needs to stop.

good luck with that

[BrandNewOne]

I can't but think there is a lot of naivety in this post. You are only 10 months in to contracting and still asking questions like your TSB one earlier. There is a good chance you could be unpleasantly surprised how far wrong you are with a couple of those points come 2020.

Okay Methuselah.

I asked a question seeking more experienced views on taking a contract in these difficult times. The responses were petty and mocking so I did not bother responding

I hope you people here know that people come here for advice. Instead it's all anger and frustration. Seeking advice does not make one naive or stupid. No need to be condescending.

Also, what's naive about my response. The market is changing..complaining will not change the fact. I am choosing to accept this situation and see how to survive in it. Yes, companies will need to either update how they hire contractors to align with IR35 or face the skills gap. Contractors are and will continue to be needed. Yes, we are about to go into a recession if the idiots.pass a no deal Brexit. It's just a fact. Brexit has also scared away a lot of EU talent...thus creating a gap we can use to our advantage.

This continuous stream of misery and condescension needs to stop.

[northernladuk]

The end client is simply going to have to pay more the way I see it...and that is the fact.

I have no fear of this legislation. No company will not suddenly stop hiring contractors. They will simply have to find another way of managing it so that it is beneficial to them. The time of hiring people and just keeping them in there without using them specifically for what they were hired for is over.

Companies dismissing contractors or forcing a permanent status will only do this to avoid getting clapped by the tax man because they know they have disguised employees. Post April 2020, newly hired contractors will have to find a different plan.

Do not forget we are entering a recession and we are leaving the EU so there is a squeeze on talent. In my mind, this will be a juicy market for those of us still in the UK.

I can't but think there is a lot of naivety in this post. You are only 10 months in to contracting and still asking questions like your TSB one earlier. There is a good chance you could be unpleasantly surprised how far wrong you are with a couple of those points come 2020.

[BrandNewOne]

The end client is simply going to have to pay more the way I see it...and that is the fact.

I have no fear of this legislation. No company will not suddenly stop hiring contractors. They will simply have to find another way of managing it so that it is beneficial to them. The time of hiring people and just keeping them in there without using them specifically for what they were hired for is over.

Companies dismissing contractors or forcing a permanent status will only do this to avoid getting clapped by the tax man because they know they have disguised employees. Post April 2020, newly hired contractors will have to find a different plan.

Do not forget we are entering a recession and we are leaving the EU so there is a squeeze on talent. In my mind, this will be a juicy market for those of us still in the UK.

[northernladuk]

Why have you posted an Tax legislation question on the future of IR35 in the business section?


But....They assess the role and if it's deemed to be inside then they want the contractor to be inside else they'd be taking on a sizable financial risk if they've incorrectly determined the status.

I don't think the WANT the contractor to be inside but if the role they want to fill fits then so be it.

[psychocandy]

One point:-

Calls for an independent appeals process have been ignored. Instead, a new ‘client-led status disagreement process’ is to be introduced. As a result, if a contractor disputes their status assessment they can only appeal to their client, who may have an interest in their contractors being inside IR35

Why on earth would a client WANT the contractor to be inside IR35? All this means is that the contractors take home is less and, potentially, they have to pay a higher rate to attract contractors in the first place.

OK, there is always going to be an element of "just in case", and its certainly happened in the Public Sector. But of course that's unique - plenty of people who don't really care if the contractors cost more.