Reply to: Getting into Cloud Computing - AWS/Azure/Google Cloud

[FK1]

Just wanted to stress that getting into Cloud computing means DevOps that is highly demanded role but not a programmer role. The senior embedded C/C++ developer could earn (in much more comfortable zone) not less than a good DevOps. There is a high wind constantly in that clouds.

[Lance]

A typical admin/IT support activities in complex environments IS black magic. Especially in Clouds. You could be a very good engineer, a computer science expert but you have to do black magic. Because of it is out of your control. You just a technician that servicing the Tools.

In that scenario you're just an end user of a service. The fact that you use the service to programme software is neither here nor there.

A DevOps role, for example, is a lot deeper than that as they understand and control the underlying 'black magic'.
An infrsatructure engineer similarly understands it. And end user doesn't need to.

[FK1]

In my experience someting is called black magic, or a black art by people who don;t understand it.

utter rubbish, spouted by someone who thinks cloud services are black magic

A typical admin/IT support activities in complex environments IS black magic. Especially in Clouds. You could be a very good engineer, a computer science expert but you have to do black magic. Because of it is out of your control. You just a technician that servicing the Tools. You do restore/restart/reinstall to fix an issue. Because of no point to go deeper as there is nothing to understand what is there in a regular dropping. And that could be a bit bored for someone who enjoy creativity and coding.

In terms of skills "Cloud developer" could be named "Git" or "TFS" developer i.e. that is a just a marketing word. It still be 80%-90% web development skills if that is about development. Where it is not so it is a DevOps/technician/Sales role.
Cloud Developer jobs, salary benchmarking, skill sets & demand trends | IT Jobs Watch

For an experienced embedded programmer to go that high? IoT is not less trendy than Clouds. While in IoT he could still be a master not a servant.
Embedded Engineer jobs, salary benchmarking, skill sets & demand trends | IT Jobs Watch
Embedded C jobs, average salaries and trends for Embedded C skills | IT Jobs Watch

[Lance]

To get to where? Those DevOps are no more happy developers but sad black magic technicians. It is good for those who never enjoyed coding.

In my experience someting is called black magic, or a black art by people who don;t understand it.

Regarding development it still be "web" not "cloud" even if "hosting" is renamed to "cloud".

utter rubbish, spouted by someone who thinks cloud services are black magic

[FK1]

Considering this is a market that will be expanding in the next few years; what do you suggest as the best way to get into cloud computing for someone who has worked as a SW engineer since the early 2000s - mainly embedded C and C#?

Is there any chance that getting certified would land me a developer's contract, or should one start their way from the bottom again, looking for a junior permie role?

To get to where? Those DevOps are no more happy developers but sad black magic technicians. It is good for those who never enjoyed coding.



Regarding development it still be "web" not "cloud" even if "hosting" is renamed to "cloud".

I've been selling an Azure based solution
I've got customers with 100 employees all on Office365 & Azure and customers with 100,000 employees all on Office 365 & Azure.
...
Microsoft is in the process of pushing Azure into the corporate environment anyway.

Not every corporate that small if we speak not Office 365 but ERP

[Lance]

Yes. Exactly like that!

It's a big product area and I certainly don't claim to know all of it ...

Have you used Azure Stack? If so, how close to the Cloud Azure is it? i.e does it offer the same range of services such as Functions and Cosmos or is it limited to SQL databases and VM's?

I've not used it as it's only recently that entry level options have been available. Prior to that it was £250k starting price.
It doesn't provide every function but you'd need to read up on it. Or ring MS directly.

[BigDataPro]

Considering this is a market that will be expanding in the next few years; what do you suggest as the best way to get into cloud computing for someone who has worked as a SW engineer since the early 2000s - mainly embedded C and C#?

Is there any chance that getting certified would land me a developer's contract, or should one start their way from the bottom again, looking for a junior permie role?

I would suggest getting some courses, sign-up for the free tier on all (AWS, GCP and Azure) and get the basics right. If you prefer, obtain some certification. It worked for me

[tomtomagain]

like this? What is Azure Stack | Microsoft Azure

what have you been selling? That's been around quite a while now

Yes. Exactly like that!

It's a big product area and I certainly don't claim to know all of it ...

Have you used Azure Stack? If so, how close to the Cloud Azure is it? i.e does it offer the same range of services such as Functions and Cosmos or is it limited to SQL databases and VM's?

[Lance]

I would not be surprised if a unifying "Private-Azure" product is launched. Instead of installing a Windows server you might one day deploy a "Private-Azure" onto your rack of ( Microsoft approved hardware ) which would give you the Azure experiance within your own DC ... and of course link seamlesly to Microsoft Azure to allow you to buy-in additional capacity as and when required.

like this? What is Azure Stack | Microsoft Azure

what have you been selling? That's been around quite a while now

[tomtomagain]

I've been selling an Azure based solution for the past 4 years and I'm impressed with the breadth, size and types of organisations using it.

I've got customers with 100 employees all on Office365 & Azure and customers with 100,000 employees all on Office 365 & Azure. Across a range of industries, plenty of financial companies, government departments, charities, manufactures, oil & gas giants. You name it. Someone in your sector is using it.

For anyone working in a corporate IT environment, regardless of role, I'd say having at least some understanding of Azure ( or AWS ) and it's capabilities is likely to be time well invested. The skills required for Azure will converge with the skills required for "On-Prem".

You might not buy into the "Cloud-Will-Eat-Everything" hype and of course the computer industry loves a good fad but consider this:

Microsoft is in the process of pushing Azure into the corporate environment anyway. Features in on-prem Windows Server, SQL Server, AD and so forth are designed to work in conjunction with Azure.

I would not be surprised if a unifying "Private-Azure" product is launched. Instead of installing a Windows server you might one day deploy a "Private-Azure" onto your rack of ( Microsoft approved hardware ) which would give you the Azure experiance within your own DC ... and of course link seamlesly to Microsoft Azure to allow you to buy-in additional capacity as and when required.

[Klodge]

I've been looking into Cloud services as well (my background is from architecture within defence companies rather than as a developer though). I wouldn't say you have the rest of the other required skills to really make use of cloud experience to be honest, certainly not enough for someone to employ you based on it.

I've paid for Azure and AWS courses as its a big hole in my skillset as an architect but in your shoes, I'd spin up some Azure and AWS trial labs and just play and see if it helps fill any gaps.

[cosmic]

Considering this is a market that will be expanding in the next few years; what do you suggest as the best way to get into cloud computing for someone who has worked as a SW engineer since the early 2000s - mainly embedded C and C#?

Is there any chance that getting certified would land me a developer's contract, or should one start their way from the bottom again, looking for a junior permie role?

As a 365/azure consultant I would say you would need to have commercial experience. The current client and many others are struggling to find developers and or architects to cover roles. Most have no or little experience so cv's are binned. I would get your feet in a a junior to understand how cloud computing works. Learn PowerShell code and reactJS while at it and once you have 2-4 years experience you would get a good salary. In contracting it can be from 350 to 750 per day once you have the experience but you would be fighting against seasoned contractors with many clients under their belt.... but we all started somewhere and having the commercial experience is key.

[fool]

Clouds require more effort in terms of security and making them dynamic to use resources on demand as you need to keep the costs down; regardless of the cons, this is the trend and it is worth learning about. AWS is a good place to start.

It's not that cloud necessarily takes more effort to secure, it's that there are levels of security that just are just often ignored on-prem or hand waved away with CABs and Security Products.

No amount of paperwork, nor a random SIEM, is going to save you from a developer pushing a backdoor into their code. Code review might.

But sure, if you're not doing infrastructure as code, you don't need to secure those non-existant APIs, but you're also implicitly trusting your entire tech team, and often just slowing everyone down so an ivory tower can approve you misconfiguring the edge firewall.

[BlasterBates]

Clouds require more effort in terms of security and making them dynamic to use resources on demand as you need to keep the costs down; regardless of the cons, this is the trend and it is worth learning about. AWS is a good place to start.

[Lance]

I doubt it.

Most companies I come across doing the data centre thing are pretty terrible, and still think endpoint security and the network edge is where they need to put their security. Sure, they disparage cloud as a security issue, but really it's their lack of skills that is the deciding factor.

Hiring a bunch of devs with no cloud or security experience to move your estate to cloud is also a silly idea, but that doesn't make the provider a security risk, just again a lack of skills internally.

this ^^^^^^

Companies with real security needs are moving to the cloud. Azure/O365 is accredited for information classified as Official. This is a higher level of accreditation than almost all other computing environments.

The next classification is secret, and Azure is used for that already, with additional controls.