Market and rates for remote contracts?

[perplexed]

Yup that's fair although WFH doesn't work for me as I need to speak to people so not very effective. I'd guess full time WFH only works for very few roles.

Issue, certainly within software development is that not all information you require is fully packaged up or indeed available ahead of starting the contract. The more "domain model info dump" you require means interacting and talking to permies; yes, can use phone, Slack or my preferred option, email but for the most part face to face is not so much "expected" but "encouraged".

Due to family circumstances I commute every day so don't work too far from home. Milage is certainly nice to claim.

[northernladuk]

How many gigs could you have done equally well by working from home?

and how many of those gigs were you actually allowed to work from home because of the reason above?

In general, a good percentage of contracts could be done from home, but a very small percentage of those contracts are actually being done from home. That's because this is how it works in the real world.

Yup that's fair although WFH doesn't work for me as I need to speak to people so not very effective. I'd guess full time WFH only works for very few roles.

Call it client, call it employer...it's all a technicality.

Maybe, but a very important learning point to those who haven't grasped it yet. They are very different things so an important technicality to get right first and then you can be a bit looser with terms.

If you don't want to come to an agreement with them (like lower rate for wfh) you just sit on the bench. Anyone's free to take the best decision for their own business

Indeed but as per your real world, not many clients will negotiate lower rates for WFH when there are a raft of people willing to work on site at a rate the client is happy to pay. If that's your only option vs sitting on the bench it's likely you are going to have a pretty difficult time contracting.

[MattZani]

You aren't thinking like a business. For a start we are contractors. We don't have an employer, we have a client.

They are buying a highly skilled resource to do what they want. If they are OK with that being done at home it means they are confident you will still deliver. They are paying for results so it doesn't matter if it's done at home or their office. They get what they paid for.

Now if they are closed minded and don't think you'll do as well at home and that's one of your prime requisites then that gig is not for you. Dropping rate to provide a service that isn't what the client wants won't work.

The same reasons above are why you don't need to drop your rate if its at home or the client. If they are happy with it they will pay. Coffee and the like is absolute peanuts. That stuff shouldn't factor in to highly skilled B2B contracts.

How many gigs could you have done equally well by working from home?

and how many of those gigs were you actually allowed to work from home because of the reason above?

In general, a good percentage of contracts could be done from home, but a very small percentage of those contracts are actually being done from home. That's because this is how it works in the real world.

Call it client, call it employer...it's all a technicality. If you don't want to come to an agreement with them (like lower rate for wfh) you just sit on the bench. Anyone's free to take the best decision for their own business

[Old Greg]

You aren't thinking like a business. For a start we are contractors. We don't have an employer, we have a client.

They are buying a highly skilled resource to do what they want. If they are OK with that being done at home it means they are confident you will still deliver. They are paying for results so it doesn't matter if it's done at home or their office. They get what they paid for.

Now if they are closed minded and don't think you'll do as well at home and that's one of your prime requisites then that gig is not for you. Dropping rate to provide a service that isn't what the client wants won't work.

The same reasons above are why you don't need to drop your rate if its at home or the client. If they are happy with it they will pay. Coffee and the like is absolute peanuts. That stuff shouldn't factor in to highly skilled B2B contracts.

There may be more competition for home based contracts.

[northernladuk]

elaborate, please. what is?

You aren't thinking like a business. For a start we are contractors. We don't have an employer, we have a client.

They are buying a highly skilled resource to do what they want. If they are OK with that being done at home it means they are confident you will still deliver. They are paying for results so it doesn't matter if it's done at home or their office. They get what they paid for.

Now if they are closed minded and don't think you'll do as well at home and that's one of your prime requisites then that gig is not for you. Dropping rate to provide a service that isn't what the client wants won't work.

The same reasons above are why you don't need to drop your rate if its at home or the client. If they are happy with it they will pay. Coffee and the like is absolute peanuts. That stuff shouldn't factor in to highly skilled B2B contracts.

[WTFH]

For 2 reasons:
1) employers are usually close-minded and do not think that the job can be done equally well. When I work from home I'm equally or more productive than when I'm in the office...nevertheless, employers (and hr people especially) don't get it and are not willing to pay the same rate as someone who is in the office all day everyday.

I don't care about employers, I care about my customers. HR people don't sign my timesheet, it's the project manager, or similar.

2) by working from home you save on transport costs, coffee/food, and also have a better life (sleep more...less time wasted on public transport or car...all these things). So, given point 1, you can be willing to accept a lower rate

The customer doesn't care about your home life or your transport costs. That's up to you to manage.

These are why NLUK says it's permie talk.

[MattZani]

That's all just permie thinking.

elaborate, please. what is?

[northernladuk]

For 2 reasons:
1) employers are usually close-minded and do not think that the job can be done equally well. When I work from home I'm equally or more productive than when I'm in the office...nevertheless, employers (and hr people especially) don't get it and are not willing to pay the same rate as someone who is in the office all day everyday.
2) by working from home you save on transport costs, coffee/food, and also have a better life (sleep more...less time wasted on public transport or car...all these things). So, given point 1, you can be willing to accept a lower rate

But you aren't being employed.

That's all just permie thinking.

[MattZani]

Why would you expect a lower rate for WFH. If the job can be done equally well away from the office than in it then surely its worth the same rate.

For 2 reasons:
1) employers are usually close-minded and do not think that the job can be done equally well. When I work from home I'm equally or more productive than when I'm in the office...nevertheless, employers (and hr people especially) don't get it and are not willing to pay the same rate as someone who is in the office all day everyday.
2) by working from home you save on transport costs, coffee/food, and also have a better life (sleep more...less time wasted on public transport or car...all these things). So, given point 1, you can be willing to accept a lower rate

[WTFH]

There would be more competition, so the rate can be lower.
The rates I have seen seems low, but it can be the agency.

I think you've started off with a false assumption.

Are you prepared to travel for a contract? i.e. work away from home, perhaps even abroad, for 5 days a week?
Plenty of contractors are. It's part of the nature of contracting for many.

Some contractors work from home because they manage multiple clients at once, the clients are aware of it, and each is billed accordingly. Others work from home because they only want to work a couple of days a week. Others work from home because when we negotiate contracts we discuss it as an option.

Over the last 10 years, most of my clients have been happy with some level of WFH. I've not dropped my rate, I've not met more competition. But the same clients also expect that I will travel to site, anywhere in the world, and may be away from home for a couple of weeks at a time.

[CppAnddotNET]

There would be more competition, so the rate can be lower.
The rates I have seen seems low, but it can be the agency.

[northernladuk]

Why would you expect a lower rate for WFH. If the job can be done equally well away from the office than in it then surely its worth the same rate.

I think you are looking at it as a benefit like permies do when their employer allows WFH but that's not how contracting works. The client wants something delivering and in a manner they want. Asking them for a favour or less money to WFH won't make a difference if they intend the role to be based in their office. If the requirements include WFH they will either state that or make it clear early on.

That said WFH most of the time is not that common and more often than not becomes an option if you've already worked for them.

You are seriously narrowing down your prospects if you'll only take WFH gigs for clients a long way from you.

[WTFH]

If you're struggling to find a local contract, you need to look further afield.

Working from home is becoming more common, but it's not a given. It's one of the things about contracting, if you're really wanting to contract, you need to be prepared to travel.

[molsang]

I am thinking of looking at remote positions instead of waiting for a local one.

I expect a lower rate - How much should I go down, and how is the competition compared to on-site contracts?

I can be on site quite often, so I should have some advantage compared to East Europeans.

That is my question as well. In my opinion, the rate is less concern for remote contract, the main thing whether client is happy to agree. I will leave UK if I find a client who agrees of 1/3 period of contract onsite and rest of the period remote. If client agrees then agreeing on rate less concern for me.

[CppAnddotNET]

I am thinking of looking at remote positions instead of waiting for a local one.

I expect a lower rate - How much should I go down, and how is the competition compared to on-site contracts?

I can be on site quite often, so I should have some advantage compared to East Europeans.