Off payroll rules Public Sector

[Lance]

Thanks all.

I'll see if I can get a copy of the CEST assessment.
No matter what, I'll collect evidence of the lack of MoO and SDC in working practise (as I always do).

Ideally this will be a long term contract, as it's a big project, and I'd like to be able to sit out B***** and the April 2020 changes.
It's 20% more than my usual day rate as well

Death of contracting my arse.....

[mudskipper]

Currently the risk lies with the client but until it's proven in court (i.e. HMRC win and client pays the due taxes and penalties/fines) I'd want to take whatever reasonable steps are available to cover oneself, which may include insurance against IR35 investigation.

The risk is with the fee payer - in this case the agency.

Given they bear the risk for a decision they have not made, many agencies are trying to pass that risk to the contractor, so do get the contract reviewed.

However, if the decision was made using CEST, then HMRC have said they will stand by it, as long as the answers entered were accurate.

[Hobosapien]

Yep ask for the evidence used to support the 'outside' determination. CEST printout or whatever they must keep a record of in case HMRC come knocking.

I'd also look into whether independent contract review services (QDOS etc) are willing to review the CEST based evidence as a way of mitigating the risk that HMRC come along and say the client was wrong in how they arrived at the 'outside' determination and someone must pay all the missing tax.

Currently the risk lies with the client but until it's proven in court (i.e. HMRC win and client pays the due taxes and penalties/fines) I'd want to take whatever reasonable steps are available to cover oneself, which may include insurance against IR35 investigation.

[jamesbrown]

not within the scope of IR35.

Poor choice of words, which was the original source of confusion. It’s almost certainly within the scope of IR35, hence the references made, and for the client to make the determination, but it have may be deemed inside or outside. My guess is outside, and the words to that effect were chosen poorly.

[MrButton]

Yep this is the terminology used in my outside ir35 contract.

They did however also provide me a copy of the CEST tool results. So you may want to ask for evidence of why they decided on the outside status. I’m sure you won’t be the first person to ask.

[webberg]

I would say that it implies that the public body has reviewed the job and has decided that whatever assessment they have made, with or without the help of CEST, says that it is not within the scope of IR35.

You are entitled to ask them what assessment they have done and how they have arrived at the decision. I suggest that if you are going to pay somebody to give you more comfort, then that analysis would be very useful (and would reduce the reviewers fee).

[Lance]

Out of scope could mean two things.

1) The have assessed the role and it falls outside IR35. Happy days.
2) The engagement is via a consultancy or similar, and the PS body have decided that they do not need to make a determination. i.e. it is 'out of scope' of the rule changes, and normal rules (i.e. you decide status) applies.

Yep.
I think it's 1.

It's not via a consultancy. It's MyCo -> Agency -> client.

Thanks also.

[Lance]

Its outside IR35. If it isnt, they pick up the costs.

that's what I think. Thanks.

[mudskipper]

I have a contract offer. It's for a public sector body. The agency says it's definitely outside IR35 (yeah right!). There is a Ts&Cs that covers both inside and outside (I was given that before the offer), and now I have the offer they've provided a schedule document that contains


That says to me that it's outside IR35. But I want to get some, preferably helpful, other opinion.

Yes I'll get it reviewed, but want an idea of whether I need to manage expectations as they want me to start Tuesday 6th. The schedule only arrived late Friday so I've not had chance to submit for review yet.

T.I.A.

Out of scope could mean two things.

1) The have assessed the role and it falls outside IR35. Happy days.
2) The engagement is via a consultancy or similar, and the PS body have decided that they do not need to make a determination. i.e. it is 'out of scope' of the rule changes, and normal rules (i.e. you decide status) applies.

[malvolio]

I have a contract offer. It's for a public sector body. The agency says it's definitely outside IR35 (yeah right!). There is a Ts&Cs that covers both inside and outside (I was given that before the offer), and now I have the offer they've provided a schedule document that contains


That says to me that it's outside IR35. But I want to get some, preferably helpful, other opinion.

Yes I'll get it reviewed, but want an idea of whether I need to manage expectations as they want me to start Tuesday 6th. The schedule only arrived late Friday so I've not had chance to submit for review yet.

T.I.A.

Its outside IR35. If it isnt, they pick up the costs.

[Lance]

I have a contract offer. It's for a public sector body. The agency says it's definitely outside IR35 (yeah right!). There is a Ts&Cs that covers both inside and outside (I was given that before the offer), and now I have the offer they've provided a schedule document that contains

Client confirmation of Off-Payroll Rules applying to this Assignment
----- Out of scope

That says to me that it's outside IR35. But I want to get some, preferably helpful, other opinion.

Yes I'll get it reviewed, but want an idea of whether I need to manage expectations as they want me to start Tuesday 6th. The schedule only arrived late Friday so I've not had chance to submit for review yet.

T.I.A.