Reply to: Project Management Training - London - Agile vs Standard and which one

[Cirrus]

you can ONLY get public sector contracts if you have PRINCE2

I got contracts with HMRC and RPA without PRINCE.

It's useful to know PRINCE if you're a PM. You can read the manuals to understand it. You don't need a qualification generally even though it is often mentioned in adverts. An insurance company insisted on a 40 minute PRINCE telephone grilling and I passed that.

Agile is much more difficult. You would never ever believe it but ( see: agilemanifesto.org) agile is about not having frameworks but of course they soon flood in to fill the salesman's vacuum so when someone says "we do agile", it's totally pot luck what religion they fervently believe in. And sadly like Shia/Sunni, anything not identical to their worldview and precise use of terms will lead to ridicule and rejection. You need to read between the lines to suss out what each client uses.

[mudskipper]

CAVEAT: The T&Cs on that page say the offers expired in 2016 - so please check with QA for current discounts, which may or may not be as generous (I have asked for clarification)

They have confirmed that the discounts published are still valid, and the Ts&Cs have been updated

[BR14]

This is all you need

[Glencky]

On the original subject...

I'm a PM of 15+ years. The company I joined as a grad and spent 11 years with as a permie rolled out PMP-based methodology globally, as part of which I got my PMP qualification. It involved quite a lot of in-depth classroom training (to fulfil the training hours requirements) plus detailed records of my PM experience. I have maintained the certification through CPD in the 3 year cycles ever since because it's a lot easier than having to start again from scratch. PMP is more in-depth and detailed and as you said, more globally recognised. I've been contracting 5 years but only bothered to get PRINCE2 this year when, like you, I was taking some time off. In fact, I did it because I needed some more training hours in a hurry to complete my PMP recertification and doing the PRINCE2 training as a course therefore did double duty for me on getting PRINCE2 and also qualifying me to recertify as a PMP.

Now that I'm able to compare the 2, even though I have confirmed my suspicions that in many ways PMP is a 'better' qualification (partly because it insists on evidence X,000 hours of experience as well as the training to get the certification), in your position I think you should try and get a last minute place on a PRINCE2 classroom course. Typical cost for 5 day classroom course for Foundation + Practitioner is £1200-£1700 + VAT depending on location and provider. However booking on a Friday afternoon for a course starting on Monday via Knowledge Academy, I got one for less than £800+ VAT. Bearing in mind the text book (supplied with the course) is about £80 and the exam only is about £300, this is very good value indeed, and personally I found it a lot easier just to turn up and listen than to self-study. They over egged how hard it would be - for an experienced PM it's very easy and if you've been doing hybrid roles you should be fine. Obviously if you were working and this would also cost you time off this would be much more costly.

I still favour PMP but I'm just not sure it's cost-justified in this country. And more to the point, you can ONLY get public sector contracts if you have PRINCE2 so in principle just getting that opens up a whole new market. When I'm recruiting PMs I'm primarily interested in experience and absolutely wouldn't discount a candidate without a qualification who had the right experience and a good CV. But I'm the hiring manager and agents may think differently, and also it's a competitive market and I'd say there are very few contractors working as a PM successfully these days who have absolutely no certification (those who are probably have a very good and longstanding network and work mostly through that). Very few ads for PMs that I recall seeing don't specify something like 'PRINCE2/PMP or equivalent'.

As for AGILE, it's the current hot thing - has been building for a few years and very much this year. I was about to do Prince2 Agile (slightly easier having already done PRINCE2 this year as shorter course) when I got a contract so have deferred that for now. As somebody else has said, PRINCE2 Agile may not be the 'best' Agile qualification but it's relatively quick, easy and cheap and hence accessible, from what I've seen.

Whatever you do, it's definitely worth reading up as much as possible on Agile because you're going to find increasingly that organisations expect you to be familiar with it.

I'm not even getting into a discussion about whether waterfall or agile is best and for which type of organisations because as far as I can see, project and programme management are routinely done so badly that it hardly matters..! but almost everyone I speak to is highly sceptical of Agile in complex organisations, even when it has specifically been implemented on an 'Agile at scale' type of basis. I work a lot in multiple outsource, multiple supplier programmes, often with some working Agile and most waterfall. It is not without its problems, shall we say...

[mudskipper]

If you're an IPSE member, you can get really good discounts on QA courses - check them out here.

https://www.qa.com/ipse

CAVEAT: The T&Cs on that page say the offers expired in 2016 - so please check with QA for current discounts, which may or may not be as generous (I have asked for clarification)

[LondonManc]

Thanks so far

I have done the assessment and I do understand that a "certification" might not always be needed and real experience counts.

I have not done one so far. But after being on bench after 3.5 years of continous contracts - I thought it would be wise to use the time on bench to upskill or do some certification other than just looking for roles and hence my original post.

Also, I was querying regarding the cost of training as an expense and not IPSE membership. I have been working as a hybrid BA/PM roles.

Thanks

In that case, another option would be to bite the bullet and go perm as a PM for 3-5 years, establishing yourself as an out-and-out PM and always commanding PM rather than BA rates.

[konsultant]

Thanks so far

I have done the assessment and I do understand that a "certification" might not always be needed and real experience counts.

I have not done one so far. But after being on bench after 3.5 years of continous contracts - I thought it would be wise to use the time on bench to upskill or do some certification other than just looking for roles and hence my original post.

Also, I was querying regarding the cost of training as an expense and not IPSE membership. I have been working as a hybrid BA/PM roles.

Thanks

[simes]

Has the OP assessed;

1. just how may contracts specifically ask for PM qualifications, and if so,
2. of them, how many specifically ask for either PMP or PRINCE

As a starter for ten, that should answer the question.

Otherwise, if not, he may find that, as mentioned above, experience is really the key factor here. In my experience, it is only the Public Sector, as a generalisation, that asks for such.

I find a CV full of modern blue chips does away with the need for qualifications. The one caveat to that was a few years ago when Agile was fairly new, I did do the two-day noddy course to become a Scrum Master and that smoothed the way to opening those doors. But even now as most organisations have their own way of doing things, the really key factor is to demonstrate flexibility and adaptability to a wide variety of environments, and Not any affiliation to one way of doing things...

[mudskipper]

I think he means the IPSE membership not the training. As it happens the business can pay for it but its not deductable [/url]

Doh.

WNLUKS.

Use https://www.ipse.co.uk/joinme/066626/ for a 15% discount on your first year.

[northernladuk]

So what line of work are you in at the moment?

[northernladuk]

See links above as to whether it can be a business expense.

I think he means the IPSE membership not the training. As it happens the business can pay for it but its not deductable.

[mudskipper]

Not IPSE member yet, but I assume that the cost can be business expense and VAT can be offset ?

Thanks

See links above as to whether it can be a business expense.

[konsultant]

If you're an IPSE member, you can get really good discounts on QA courses - check them out here.

https://www.qa.com/ipse

Not IPSE member yet, but I assume that the cost can be business expense and VAT can be offset ?

Thanks

[konsultant]

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-and-bene...s/whats-exempt

This seems a good explanation and suggests the wholly & exclusively test

https://www.taxinsider.co.uk/186-Lea...g_courses.html

So a few contract adverts with "must understand Agile" should suffice.


So no your "how to pierce your todger" course would fail unless your wife paid for it.

As always ask your accountant.

Thanks.

These are very useful links and information

[mudskipper]

QA

If you're an IPSE member, you can get really good discounts on QA courses - check them out here.

https://www.qa.com/ipse