Reply to: Can the company i contract for cut my contract short because i wouldnt go full time?

[valleycom]

It's not good but this is contracting for you, we don't have any rights and will be binned at the earliest opportunity.

A few years I wasn't renewed as the company brought a 'testing guru' in to do a talk and everybody was expected to attend and it was for a whole day, so this was a day I couldn't bill for. I refused to go as didn't see what I would get out of it and also it doesn't look good from an IR35 perspective. They said if I didn't go then I wouldn't be renewed and they followed through with their threat. No regrets from me though, not getting bullied by anyone.

[chineseJohn]

The reason he shouldn't take it is he is a contractor. The permie pay is going to be much less and even on probation period the notice period will be putting blockers in the way. Even with a week or 2 weeks he could be doing himself out of immediate start gigs.

If he wants to be a contractor then be one. Leave the gig and look for another one like we all do. Don't dick about going permie and jumping ship when a contract comes up.
.......

Agreed. IN 2000 i was lucky to make the jump from perm to contract, client was willing to wait 4 weeks to work my notice and agents were probably willing to wait back then.
2007 i went permie to retrain into .net, after 2 years I wanted to get back into contracting, struggled as any agent would not entertain anyone with a 4 week notice period, even telling the agent i was available at 2 weeks notice as I had leave to take, they were still not interested.
2009 I was put on notice to be made redundant, as soon I told the agents I had a specific end date, I had loads of interviews and offers.

[chineseJohn]

....

Chinesejohn is saying don't go perm as well. He's just used perm instead contractor. I think we are all on the same page here?

Opps sorry yes I should have proof read my reply.

[LondonManc]

In my experience, banks tend to be four weeks, everywhere else asap and they take the hit on the screening risk and do it in parallel to any advanced screening; if you've proved identity, company details, VAT registration, insurance, etc, then they're generally fine with getting you on site asap.

[northernladuk]

I think we both make fair points. If there's the potential for another good, well paying, contracting gig in the very near future, taking the permie role is a bad move. Of course, if another good contracting gig is only going to present itself after 3 months on the bench (and will wait for him for the 1 week's notice he has to give), then taking the permie role is a good move to continue to earn money in the interim.

It's all a balancing act and attempting to be able to predict what's going to happen in the near and mid term future. Of course, if any of us could do that, I think we'd all give up contracting tomorrow!

Yup agreed.

[billybiro]

Quite possibly but the last 4 or 5 gigs I've had I've started on the first Monday after the interview but yes it does happen. He's a lot likely to get as far as having to wait to start if he's got a notice period. Plenty of guys on the bench willing to sign there and then offering immediate start even if it doesn't turn out like that.


Not if he then can't get out of 50% to get the 100% for a reasonable period. Might not pay off in the long run.

I think we both make fair points. If there's the potential for another good, well paying, contracting gig in the very near future, taking the permie role is a bad move. Of course, if another good contracting gig is only going to present itself after 3 months on the bench (and will wait for him for the 1 week's notice he has to give), then taking the permie role is a good move to continue to earn money in the interim.

It's all a balancing act and attempting to be able to predict what's going to happen in the near and mid term future. Of course, if any of us could do that, I think we'd all give up contracting tomorrow!

[northernladuk]

Most contracts will usually wait for at least 1 week for you to start. Hell, even most of the ones that insist you start "tomorrow" will probably have you sitting around twiddling your thumbs for a week or two whilst they sort out a desk/chair/laptop/security-pass etc.

Quite possibly but the last 4 or 5 gigs I've had I've started on the first Monday after the interview but yes it does happen. He's a lot likely to get as far as having to wait to start if he's got a notice period. Plenty of guys on the bench willing to sign there and then offering immediate start even if it doesn't turn out like that.

As for the permie pay being much less. Well, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing!

Not if he then can't get out of 50% to get the 100% for a reasonable period. Might not pay off in the long run.

[billybiro]

The reason he shouldn't take it is he is a contractor. The permie pay is going to be much less and even on probation period the notice period will be putting blockers in the way. Even with a week or 2 weeks he could be doing himself out of immediate start gigs.

Most contracts will usually wait for at least 1 week for you to start. Hell, even most of the ones that insist you start "tomorrow" will probably have you sitting around twiddling your thumbs for a week or two whilst they sort out a desk/chair/laptop/security-pass etc.

As for the permie pay being much less. Well, 50% of something is better than 100% of nothing!

[LondonManc]

Thats a bit off of the client if they failed to mention they were looking for someone contract-perm. Its as if they've treated the 1st month as extended interview.

I've been to interviews where client has owned up they really want a permie and then avoided. I've been for interviews where they said they might get a permie and I've gone for it.

If it was me, get out of there assuming you don't want the permie job.

Its amazing though how many clients will assume you really want a perm role and dont understand when you say no.

Correct. The simple part is explaining to them that it's nothing personal and that you're a contractor with broader plans about enlarging your offering long term (fnar fnar).

[uk contractor]

I was advised that dormancy was fine in case the role/fit didn't work out as we were both hoping. I explained that the company would be closed down at the end of its next financial year if all went well and they were fine with that. Unsurprisingly they were far keener on me ceasing trading than the actual status of the limited company.

Luck of the draw many have well developed Compliance procedures. Some ask what is Compliance LOL!

[psychocandy]

Thats a bit off of the client if they failed to mention they were looking for someone contract-perm. Its as if they've treated the 1st month as extended interview.

I've been to interviews where client has owned up they really want a permie and then avoided. I've been for interviews where they said they might get a permie and I've gone for it.

If it was me, get out of there assuming you don't want the permie job.

Its amazing though how many clients will assume you really want a perm role and dont understand when you say no.

[LondonManc]

You would probably have to close it down & put on inactive list plus either pay an accountant to fill the monthly HMRC returns or DIY. Accountants charge around £50-70 per month + VAT to do this admin for you. The perm role would most definitely require details of any Directorships held & also most likely ask you to resign & shut the company down. That depends on how thorough their compliance process is though but its deep hot water if you do not declare & they find out later...…..

I was advised that dormancy was fine in case the role/fit didn't work out as we were both hoping. I explained that the company would be closed down at the end of its next financial year if all went well and they were fine with that. Unsurprisingly they were far keener on me ceasing trading than the actual status of the limited company.

[uk contractor]

this is slightly deviating from my original question. but does anyone know, if hypothetically i was to take the permie role, what id have to do with my company, accountant etc before i could sign the permie contract, if anything at all?

again thanks for the help & advice so far. its really appreciated

You would probably have to close it down & put on inactive list plus either pay an accountant to fill the monthly HMRC returns or DIY. Accountants charge around £50-70 per month + VAT to do this admin for you. The perm role would most definitely require details of any Directorships held & also most likely ask you to resign & shut the company down. That depends on how thorough their compliance process is though but its deep hot water if you do not declare & they find out later...…..

[uk contractor]

Cheers for the replies everyone.
Im pretty new to contracting and guess im learning the hard way in this case.
The permie role they have offered me is actually very good, but its more the way theyve went about it thats leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Also the fact that if i take it ill be sitting with 3 other guys still on contract that probably arnt of the same level of skill set as me earning more money.
Have a decision to make i suppose. Not the worst situation to be in but also not ideal since ivr only just started the contracting journey

Those 3 do not have a guaranteed income though until the contract has expired & they have been paid for that work. Quite likely if you go perm sooner or later they will either have to do the same or be replaced once they find the perms they need. No contract is ever safe your just a flexible short term resource until the fund runs out or they hire someone cheaper & or better! Just because your contract states ££££ @ 26 weeks does not equal income until its sitting in your bank account.

[1manshow]

I'm surprised you are even considering going perm with them if that's how they have treated you.

Whats the agents view on them breaking the contract with the agency?

To be fair, the fact he was offered something is better than just being let go (which happens to people where budget constraints need to be met).

Even more surprising that they are offering it to him so early on in the contract is, a contract to perm is likely to not be around for long (due to being tempted by contract money - I would have thought they'd rather have someone they can realistically see being in the position a while) so I don't think the OP has much to complain about...

Except of course of the possibility that the company never planned for him to have a 6 month contract and knew in advance they will either make him perm or replace him with a perm, which I guess would be a tulipty thing to do.