Reply to: No I dont want to become PERMANENT

[northernladyuk]

I didn't expect much when I saw you replied but you've excelled yourself there. You could have put 12 random words together and still come out with something more useful than that.

Accountant have you your asked?

[madame SasGuru]

I agree, based on the sentence you added in "If the work is managed by an employee".
I didn't state that in my example.

I'm happy to change it

He's not. HMRC's viewpoint from on high is that temporary staff - even if specialized resources that are not required for long are employees if the work is managed within the organisation. Hence any augmentation of staff is inside IR35 as are all 5 of your examples above.

I'm sure that will make your happy until you think through the consequences as this is implemented in the private sector. Remember CL1 was staff augmentation where capita stated that everyone is inside IR35 and even 50% of digital outcome contracts are being stated as being inside.

[MattZani]

Hello All,

What is a nice/straight way of telling/shutting these guys up so they don't ask me to go permanent for the remainder 7 ish months I have left here? That is if I make it till the end of my assignment?

"I really would love to become a permanent but I have a terminal illness and will probably die within the year"

Then start coughing and excuse yourself to the bathroom.

[WTFH]

He's not. HMRC's viewpoint from on high is that temporary staff - even if specialized resources that are not required for long are employees if the work is managed by an employee. Hence any augmentation of staff is inside IR35 as are all 5 of your examples above.

Now you can argue whether HMRC's viewpoint is the legal definition but things are definitely moving in HMRC's direction as next Tuesday will no doubt confirm.

I agree, based on the sentence you added in "If the work is managed by an employee".
I didn't state that in my example.

[madame SasGuru]

You're off your rocker on that one.

Clients take on contractors for a variety of reasons such as:
1. They don't have the skillset in house
2. Their resources are temporarily stretched beyond an acceptable limit
3. They have a specific requirement that cannot be fulfilled by permanent employees
4. They do not have the funding for a permanent employee
5. They do not have the capacity for a permanent employee
etc.

Now, if the contractor is any good at their job, the client may realise the benefit of having that role filled by someone with their talent and wish to go to market to recruit someone.
Their most obvious first port of call would be the contractor, before throwing their net out.
The fact that a contractor says no and walks away makes them a contractor.
If they say yes and take the job, then they are no longer a contractor.

He's not. HMRC's viewpoint from on high is that temporary staff - even if specialized resources that are not required for long are employees if the work is managed by an employee. Hence any augmentation of staff is inside IR35 as are all 5 of your examples above.

Now you can argue whether HMRC's viewpoint is the legal definition but things are definitely moving in HMRC's direction as next Tuesday will no doubt confirm.

[WTFH]

The OP is simply a disguised employee - My proof? He is being asked to change to perm and quite certainly with no change to what he does or how he does it ...

Most worryingly are that fellow contractors dont seem to question or answer the puzzle of how a real "contractor" can become perm

You're off your rocker on that one.

Clients take on contractors for a variety of reasons such as:
1. They don't have the skillset in house
2. Their resources are temporarily stretched beyond an acceptable limit
3. They have a specific requirement that cannot be fulfilled by permanent employees
4. They do not have the funding for a permanent employee
5. They do not have the capacity for a permanent employee
etc.

Now, if the contractor is any good at their job, the client may realise the benefit of having that role filled by someone with their talent and wish to go to market to recruit someone.
Their most obvious first port of call would be the contractor, before throwing their net out.
The fact that a contractor says no and walks away makes them a contractor.
If they say yes and take the job, then they are no longer a contractor.

[poorautojobber]

For all those contractors who in the past have beaten their fists claiming they are real businesses because they are doing "contract" work or because they bring a lunch box with their LTD name on it let this be proof of how wrong you are.

The OP is simply a disguised employee - My proof? He is being asked to change to perm and quite certainly with no change to what he does or how he does it ...

Most worryingly are that fellow contractors dont seem to question or answer the puzzle of how a real "contractor" can become perm because they are meant to be mutually exclusive but instead compare perm vs contract salaries.

No wonder the government is rightly going after all those disguised tax evading employees

Bit of an assumption OP could have been brought in on a special project which the company doesn't have any experience of but have decided they would like that experience on the team.
Then again I'm guessing just like you!

[Batcher]

For all those contractors who in the past have beaten their fists claiming they are real businesses because they are doing "contract" work or because they bring a lunch box with their LTD name on it let this be proof of how wrong you are.

The OP is simply a disguised employee - My proof? He is being asked to change to perm and quite certainly with no change to what he does or how he does it ...

Most worryingly are that fellow contractors dont seem to question or answer the puzzle of how a real "contractor" can become perm because they are meant to be mutually exclusive but instead compare perm vs contract salaries.

No wonder the government is rightly going after all those disguised tax evading employees

If being asked to go permy is a pointer to being disguised employee then most of us will be in the tulip !!

I've been asked by a few clients over the years if I would consider going permy. My answer is always a polite no. The reason they ask is because we have highly sought after skills and they want to get them on the cheap.

I've been asked again at my current client to go permy, and after I refused they offered a 12 month FTC instead but I refused that offer too. I said I was happy to move on (knowing that they've been advertising for my skillset for over a year without success). They bit the bullet and extended me for another 6 months ... Boom !!

I work on different projects with the deliverables listed on my contracts. They would like me to go permy because they have loads of projects coming along at a fast rate of knots.

[LondonPM1]

Just say - 'perm !!! are you 'kin kidding ? If I wasn't out of here in 3 months I would top myself now...'

For all those contractors who in the past have beaten their fists claiming they are real businesses because they are doing "contract" work or because they bring a lunch box with their LTD name on it let this be proof of how wrong you are.

The OP is simply a disguised employee - My proof? He is being asked to change to perm and quite certainly with no change to what he does or how he does it ...

Most worryingly are that fellow contractors dont seem to question or answer the puzzle of how a real "contractor" can become perm because they are meant to be mutually exclusive but instead compare perm vs contract salaries.

No wonder the government is rightly going after all those disguised tax evading employees

[lukemg]

Just say - 'perm !!! are you 'kin kidding ? If I wasn't out of here in 3 months I would top myself now...'

[psychocandy]

I know you continually like to have a pop at PC, but are you really so sure you're a bona fide contractor and not a permatractor yourself?

How many consultants do you have working through your limited? Or is it just the one-man band, let's-pretend-we're-independent setup for you?

BB mun - leave NLUK alone. He likes having a pop. Its the only thing that keeps him going.

[MyUserName]

Me? I just do what I'm told to do.

In that case, could you pop over here tomorrow morning and clean my car for free for me?

[northernladuk]

I know you continually like to have a pop at PC, but are you really so sure you're a bona fide contractor and not a permatractor yourself?

How many consultants do you have working through your limited? Or is it just the one-man band, let's-pretend-we're-independent setup for you?

Me? I just do what I'm told to do.

[billybiro]

That's because you're a BAU monkey so only fill perm roles.

Says the guy who sells his principles and dignity for £75 a week.
FTFY

I feel sorry for you for being a temp as well. One day you might become a contractor.

I know you continually like to have a pop at PC, but are you really so sure you're a bona fide contractor and not a permatractor yourself?

How many consultants do you have working through your limited? Or is it just the one-man band, let's-pretend-we're-independent setup for you?

[billybiro]

If they are asking you to sleep with the boss's wife, and she's a nasty piece of work, that's an insult.

Are you sure about that? Some people would pay good money for that!