Reply to: How to ask recruiters to disclose what the employer can offer Rate wise?

[SlipTheJab]

Peydantics

[northernladuk]

semantics

Peydantics

[SlipTheJab]

I was trying to keep it simple and not get embroiled in the actual symentics of it actually being the agents money so probably does look confusing to those in the know but yes, didn't word that one too well. Fair point.

semantics

[m0n1k3r]

NLUK, you'd nailed it up until your last comment. Agencies don't take 25% of YOUR rate, pretty sure that was your whole point.

With that mentality then if my end client makes a profit above and beyond what I'm making from them then they're taking a percentage of my cut..

Depends on whether they operate open-book or not (almost none in the UK does). If it is open book, then the rate you ask for is the one forwarded to the client and they take a percentage of that. On the other hand you also get to see their contract with the client as your own contract will be very short and mostly state that "the contractor has the same liabilities to the agency as the agency has to the client as per the attached contract with the client".

[northernladuk]

NLUK, you'd nailed it up until your last comment. Agencies don't take 25% of YOUR rate, pretty sure that was your whole point.

With that mentality then if my end client makes a profit above and beyond what I'm making from them then they're taking a percentage of my cut..

I was trying to keep it simple and not get embroiled in the actual symentics of it actually being the agents money so probably does look confusing to those in the know but yes, didn't word that one too well. Fair point.

[Agent]

You are so going to get screwed if an agent clocks on this is how much of a clue you've got. You are going to be looking at 25% plus of your rate if you don't buck up.

NCOTBAC

NLUK, you'd nailed it up until your last comment. Agencies don't take 25% of YOUR rate, pretty sure that was your whole point.

With that mentality then if my end client makes a profit above and beyond what I'm making from them then they're taking a percentage of my cut..

[TheFaQQer]

(plus a cheeky add on for travel and expenses)

Why is it cheeky to factor your costs into the rate you are prepared to work for? Sounds like good business sense to me.

[Hertsseasider]

O/P Think of it as if you were selling your car.

You know how much you want for it so you advertise it at that amount(plus a cheeky add on). You do not advertise it "saying what would you pay me for it".

Likewise when looking for a contract, think about what you think you are worth (plus a cheeky add on for travel and expenses) and stick with that.

Best of luck - Contracting is a whole new mindset.

[uk contractor]

Hi all,

How do you ask a recruiter what the actual range the employer is willing to offer for a contract?

I get the feeling sometimes recruiters are going for the lowest possible hence why they ask "What would be your day rate?"

Instead of answering that, is a better reply "What is the employers rate range?" This way I can negotiate better knowing what the range is and opt out if it's too low.

There are some good recruiters who will up front tell me what the min and max range is but not all of them and I feel short-changed sometimes.

Stick to permiedom if you cannot work this out yourself!

[northernladuk]

Thank you for the constructive feedback all, I am new so your suggestions help me in answering these questions in future.

Try and apply some common sense to the situation before hitting the keyboard. Think about how a business works, how the agencies work, who you are in the chain and your relationship to those parties and also consider how contracts in other areas of your life work. Most will be B2C but still have the same essentials like probationary periods, notice, their margin not disclosed etc.

Much of it isn't rocket science. Remember being a good contractor isn't about sitting at a client doing work. Anyone can do that. It's about understanding what you are, getting the right gigs at the right price and everything that comes with running everything in the background. You can't learn to be a good contractor asking a questions about every step of the way but not understanding how/why/what you should be doing.

[HealthyProtein]

Thank you for the constructive feedback all, I am new so your suggestions help me in answering these questions in future.

[kaiser78]

You've answered it yourself (apart from using the word "employer").

"What's the budget?" and go from there, or pick your rate and tell them that's it.

eg

A: What would be your day rate?
C: £850
A: Ohhhh Client won't pay that much
C: Oh. That's my rate
A: I can't put you forward at that rate. Any chance you can come down a lot?
C: No. That's my rate - if the client wants me, that's what they'll pay. If they don't then they won't and good luck finding someone who will do that work in that location for that budget. When you don't find someone, let me know.

It's not rocket science (that would be much more expensive)

This or "what is the rate band with this role" etc

[TheFaQQer]

I get the feeling sometimes recruiters are going for the lowest possible hence why they ask "What would be your day rate?"

Instead of answering that, is a better reply "What is the employers rate range?" This way I can negotiate better knowing what the range is and opt out if it's too low.

You've answered it yourself (apart from using the word "employer").

"What's the budget?" and go from there, or pick your rate and tell them that's it.

eg

A: What would be your day rate?
C: £850
A: Ohhhh Client won't pay that much
C: Oh. That's my rate
A: I can't put you forward at that rate. Any chance you can come down a lot?
C: No. That's my rate - if the client wants me, that's what they'll pay. If they don't then they won't and good luck finding someone who will do that work in that location for that budget. When you don't find someone, let me know.

It's not rocket science (that would be much more expensive)

[stek]

Hi all,

How do you ask a recruiter what the actual range the employer is willing to offer for a contract?

I get the feeling sometimes recruiters are going for the lowest possible hence why they ask "What would be your day rate?"

Instead of answering that, is a better reply "What is the employers rate range?" This way I can negotiate better knowing what the range is and opt out if it's too low.

There are some good recruiters who will up front tell me what the min and max range is but not all of them and I feel short-changed sometimes.

You tell them what you want after factoring in your costs, that's it. Don't second guess, no need if your happy with what your get.

So you've you've pitched too low - you've got what you want - happy.

You've gone in too high, it would have crippled you financially at the offered rate - happy.

[northernladuk]

I'm sorry but you've got to start thinking a bit. This isn't all tickbox as you seem to be approaching it. You've got to use your noddle. We can't hold your hand EVERY step of the way. Yes yes you are new but you still need to think and work stuff out for yourself at some point.

How do you ask a recruiter what the actual range the employer is willing to offer for a contract?

THEY ARE NOT YOUR EMPLOYER!!!!! They are your client. You have no contractual obligation to your client at all. You are resource supplied by the agent. You've got to get this right. It's so fundamental to contracting it's not true.

I would explain it all to you but it's long winded and I just can't be arsed.

I get the feeling sometimes recruiters are going for the lowest possible hence why they ask "What would be your day rate?"

No tulip Sherlock.

Instead of answering that, is a better reply "What is the employers rate range?" This way I can negotiate better knowing what the range is and opt out if it's too low.

Understand the client, agent you relationship and you'll realise this doesn't need a response.

There are some good recruiters who will up front tell me what the min and max range is but not all of them and I feel short-changed sometimes.

If their lips are moving they are lying.

You are so going to get screwed if an agent clocks on this is how much of a clue you've got. You are going to be looking at 25% plus of your rate if you don't buck up.

NCOTBAC