Reply to: Does Regulations 2003 apply if I had not opted out?

[RetSet]

Just tell them to **** off because the contract has been frustrated by subsequent impossibility.

Why make life complicated for yourself?

[northernladuk]

I contacted the client, no answer
I am probably better off, just need to walk away from dodgy contracts from the moment they start smelling bad.
Thank you all for the advice

You've had the same theme all the way though this and you need to think clearly. There is nothing dodgy about this contract. Delays are pretty normal. It's as simple as you breaching contract and everyone else being upset about it. It's a very unfortunate reason why and no one should really blame you as it's pretty exceptional but you have to understand they don't really care. Your bereavement isn't enough reason for them to be losing money in their eyes.

Actually, you could spin this around and say the only dodgy thing here you didn't clarify the Opt out situation clearly at the time but you've worked the days so should be due the pay.

In many cases we've seen like this they try and with-hold the last payment or not sign days because they think it's in lieu of the money they are owed for breach but this is illegal. They must pay you first and then come after you for breach.

You've got to do some dunning here. Keep on at the client, maybe get a letter from your solicitor for 20 quid or so. As much as the client is being an arse their legal department won't like them not signing timesheets as they are obliged to do and they will fold. Keep writing letters, emailing, calling and keep a record and eventually they will have to respond.

One question though. The last 2 days. Did you work full days or were you a bit of a mess at the time. Did you really put two solid days work in that any client would happily pay or was it a very topsy turvey two days?

[lorakeen]

Then contact the client and ask them to send confirmation you worked those two days to the agent.

I contacted the client, no answer
I am probably better off, just need to walk away from dodgy contracts from the moment they start smelling bad.
Thank you all for the advice

[SueEllen]

I tried to walk out but the agent bullied me into staying.

That won't wash in a court of law as you have free will this is illustrated by the fact you could walk out without hesitation when you had a family death.

[northernladuk]

God NLUK you're getting soft these days. In times gone by it'd have been YNCOTBAC.

I would you are right and there is a bit of this here but when it comes to death in the family then f*** em all, particularly agents that continue to bully. Nothing else should matter but the situation at home.

[fatJock]

God NLUK you're getting soft these days. In times gone by it'd have been YNCOTBAC.

[northernladuk]

I have just asked me to pay me for the last 2 days, and they are refusing because I do not have a signed timesheet. I was on site, and I have a right to expect to be paid under the regulations. (I guess I didn't express myself clearly earlier).

Then contact the client and ask them to send confirmation you worked those two days to the agent.

They can choose to sue me for missing out on their fee, but they have dragged me along for 10 days waiting for this contract to be signed and caused me to miss out on better opportunities, only to get there and find out the position was not what I was told it would be. I can prove they have acted in bad faith on this matter.

Doesnt sound like it to me. There are often delays when starting contracts for awhole host of reasons. You shouldn't have stopped applying until you were sitting at the clients desk so you wouldn't have missed the opportunity. Can't really blame the agent here.

According to my advisor, if they sue me I can return the favor and sue them for causing me loss of income- their dragging on and deceit costed me a significantly better opportunity.

Stop listening to your advisor. You didn't earn the income so you didn't lose it and you should have taken the other opportunity. You weren't in contract so we were free to do what you want. But again you can't prove loss because you didn't work.

You've got bigger problems so forget all the suing businesses. It won't come to that. Just agent bullying. If you want the two days then contact the client get confirmation you worked to the agent and get paid and move on to the other issues that are infinitely more important than two days pay.

[lorakeen]

Nope - you should have walked out immediately if the role was unacceptable.

Also it isn't rare for some roles to have delayed starts of 2-4 weeks due to paperwork being signed.

I tried to walk out but the agent bullied me into staying.
I did not quit, just informed them I had to go.
I am sorry if I am not very coherent, I have had a very bad time in the past two weeks and my head doesn't seem to work right.
Thank you so much for all your help and advice, it is greatly appreciated

[SueEllen]

I have just asked me to pay me for the last 2 days, and they are refusing because I do not have a signed timesheet. I was on site, and I have a right to expect to be paid under the regulations. (I guess I didn't express myself clearly earlier).

They can choose to sue me for missing out on their fee, but they have dragged me along for 10 days waiting for this contract to be signed and caused me to miss out on better opportunities, only to get there and find out the position was not what I was told it would be. I can prove they have acted in bad faith on this matter.


According to my advisor, if they sue me I can return the favor and sue them for causing me loss of income- their dragging on and deceit costed me a significantly better opportunity.

Nope - you should have walked out immediately if the role was unacceptable.

Also it isn't rare for some roles to have delayed starts of 2-4 weeks due to paperwork being signed.

[lorakeen]

I'm not seeing how the regs would be a factor here. You are in breach of contract (from what I can see) for terminating the contract early against the terms of the contract. If that is the case then yes the agency can sue you for lost commission.

What do you think the regs are protecting you from?

FWIW they won't sue you. It's just not worth the time and effort. They'll try bully you into paying but they won't take it legal. Just keep putting them off and it's most likely going to go away.

I have just asked me to pay me for the last 2 days, and they are refusing because I do not have a signed timesheet. I was on site, and I have a right to expect to be paid under the regulations. (I guess I didn't express myself clearly earlier).

They can choose to sue me for missing out on their fee, but they have dragged me along for 10 days waiting for this contract to be signed and caused me to miss out on better opportunities, only to get there and find out the position was not what I was told it would be. I can prove they have acted in bad faith on this matter.


According to my advisor, if they sue me I can return the favor and sue them for causing me loss of income- their dragging on and deceit costed me a significantly better opportunity.

[northernladuk]

I'm not seeing how the regs would be a factor here. You are in breach of contract (from what I can see) for terminating the contract early against the terms of the contract. If that is the case then yes the agency can sue you for lost commission.

What do you think the regs are protecting you from?

FWIW they won't sue you. It's just not worth the time and effort. They'll try bully you into paying but they won't take it legal. Just keep putting them off and it's most likely going to go away.

[lorakeen]

Is there any thing in your contract that alludes to this? You need to clarify this as well as using the opt-out.

Oh and next time there is a family death tell them you are taking x weeks off starting immediately rather than give notice. Lots of agencies will then bin you. If they then try and say you owe them money, you can have a field day if you are telling the truth.

They have also harassed me while I was dealing with the whole thing- there's nothing quite as pleasant as being constantly bothered by phone when you're trying to read autopsy reports and funeral arrangements.

[lorakeen]

I am being told that I am in breach of the following:

6.2. Employment Business shall not pay any fees to Contractor (a) unless an invoice has been properly submitted by Contractor in accordance with clause 6.1 above and (b) unless and until Client has authorised or signed the relevant time recording process and (c) the hours claimed are true and accurate.

13.2. Where Contractor or Representative is in breach of this Agreement which results in Client terminating the agreement between Employment Business and Client or terminating the Assignment, Contractor agrees, without prejudice to any other remedy of Employment Business, to indemnify Employment Business for any loss of Employment Business’s fee that would have been charged to Client relating to the remaining period of the Assignment.

However this is in direct opposition to Regulation 12. As I have not opted out, it would appear that this does not apply to me.

Regulation 12 being this

Prohibition on employment businesses withholding payment to work-seekers on certain grounds

12. An employment business shall not, in respect of a work-seeker whom it supplies to a hirer, withhold or threaten to withhold from the work-seeker (whether by means of the inclusion of a term in a contract with the work-seeker or otherwise) the whole or any part of any payment in respect of any work done by the work-seeker on any of the following grounds—

(a)non-receipt of payment from the hirer in respect of the supply of any service provided by the employment business to the hirer;
(b)the work-seeker’s failure to produce documentary evidence authenticated by the hirer of the fact that the work-seeker has worked during a particular period of time, provided that this provision shall not prevent the employment business from satisfying itself by other means that the work-seeker worked for the particular period in question;
(c)the work-seeker not having worked during any period other than that to which the payment relates; or
(d)any matter within the control of the employment business.

[lorakeen]

Is there any thing in your contract that alludes to this? You need to clarify this as well as using the opt-out.

I am being told that I am in breach of the following:

6.2. Employment Business shall not pay any fees to Contractor (a) unless an invoice has been properly submitted by Contractor in accordance with clause 6.1 above and (b) unless and until Client has authorised or signed the relevant time recording process and (c) the hours claimed are true and accurate.

13.2. Where Contractor or Representative is in breach of this Agreement which results in Client terminating the agreement between Employment Business and Client or terminating the Assignment, Contractor agrees, without prejudice to any other remedy of Employment Business, to indemnify Employment Business for any loss of Employment Business’s fee that would have been charged to Client relating to the remaining period of the Assignment.

However this is in direct opposition to Regulation 12. As I have not opted out, it would appear that this does not apply to me.

[SueEllen]

Thank you for this. The contract I was in was a very bad one, not only it took 10 days to start which was a waste of my time but the company was quite a huge mess.
The agency claims that since I ended the contract early due to a death in the family that forced me to leave on short notice, I actually owe them money for the loss of fee they would have incurred on my contract.

Is there any thing in your contract that alludes to this? You need to clarify this as well as using the opt-out.

Oh and next time there is a family death tell them you are taking x weeks off starting immediately rather than give notice. Lots of agencies will then bin you. If they then try and say you owe them money, you can have a field day if you are telling the truth.