Reply to: Flexible Working Negotiations

[psychocandy]

Not sure about this asking at interview idea - I can see it putting clients off a bit. Then again if it was a deal breaker for me I'd ask anyway - nothing ventured....

I think you've got to assume its no WFH unless they say otherwise. Some clients will after a bit I've found and some wont ever.

I've found that a lot of clients will provide this sort of info up front at interview without asking. Also, things like support coverage hours (i.e. you may need to be onsite at 7am some days). I guess they dont want someone to start and then moan that they weren't told.

Not sure if asking the agent is a good idea. They'll think the same as client and think OMG hes going to put client off asking that. They tend to say no even if there is a chance because they dont want to rock the boat in any way at all.

[SueEllen]

I would never ask the client in an interview - never goes down well, even if the WFH option is there.

It depends how you approach the subject. You should find out about the working environment and how people within client co communicate with one another at the interview. Interviews are a two way process which many on this forum forget.

Ask the recruiment consultant - they should have a goood relationship with the company (may even have placed someone else at the company) so can provide you an insight potentially - though sometimes thet can be cagey so you don't decide to not do the interview.

In all the cases where I've been able to work from home they have known SFA about how the client works and even what work I'm expected to do.

My own experience is that WFH is starting to increase, though for contractors it is more of a challenge to get it - expensive resource, mgmt want to keep an eye on you etc.

Mine differs.

[SneakySimon]

Speak to your recruitment consultant

I would never ask the client in an interview - never goes down well, even if the WFH option is there.

Ask the recruiment consultant - they should have a goood relationship with the company (may even have placed someone else at the company) so can provide you an insight potentially - though sometimes thet can be cagey so you don't decide to not do the interview.

My own experience is that WFH is starting to increase, though for contractors it is more of a challenge to get it - expensive resource, mgmt want to keep an eye on you etc.

[pauldee]

I wouldn't expect working conditions any more favourable than existing contractors or permies. Even if they really want you on board - it's just too politically awkward to start giving new contractors special favours.

The best way is to start the job, see what conditions are the norm for everyone else and then ask for those to be extended to you.

[bikeman]

I'd love to drop to 4 days a week but I've always assumed that this can only really be negotiated on the job. At the start of a contract anything that affects an agents margin can't be left to them to negotiate.

[slogger]

flexible working for me is always a massive plus. at interview if it has gone well I always ask what the clients requirements are - in terms of releases are they done out of hours/at weekends, do they require remote support after go-live - do people wfh etc - when bundled in amongst a few other genuine queries I dont think the client would mind.

[FrontEnder]

If it's a big where I'll be staying away (or even if I'm not) I'll ask the agent at the start what sort of flexibility they usually offer. I don't say e.g "I want 1 day WFH.." I'll just ask what the company are like for flexibility etc and usually say that will also effect my rate (esp if staying away).

It hasn't seemed to stop any of them off putting me forward, and ill use their response to gauge how to approach it with the client. Sometimes they'll be clear that any WFH is unlikely, so I wouldn't ask at the interview and then see what it's like on site.

WFH is a bonus for me, if it's essential for you, then you know then the gig won't be for you, or you tell the agent you want this and see if the client can do.

[Lambert Simnel]

A very productive thread with lots of great advice. I have got the gig after 5 months on the bench. Kept mum about the flexibility requirement. Pimp feedback is that I just pipped someone else to the role out of 8 candidates. So possibly keeping my mouth shut helped.

I can share a tip in return for all the helpful advice. Sometimes its also good to let the agent have these conversations??

Cool. Good to hear.

[AnthonyQuinn]

Thank you all

A very productive thread with lots of great advice. I have got the gig after 5 months on the bench. Kept mum about the flexibility requirement. Pimp feedback is that I just pipped someone else to the role out of 8 candidates. So possibly keeping my mouth shut helped.

I can share a tip in return for all the helpful advice. Sometimes its also good to let the agent have these conversations??

[SeanT]

Don't say "I'll work from home Fridays" if you want them to take you seriously, perhaps

I try to avoid working from home on Fridays, the trains are quieter and there's usually beer at the end of it, plus I don't have to get up at 6am the following morning

[SeanT]

But you do see how the client could be pretty disappointed hearing this but they've spent time and effort finding you so they'll go along with it? You could be on the backfoot before you've even walked in the door. They might not but the fact you may have introduced a risk is there. It would piss me off and I know it's pissed my ex-client off in the past.

I was probably a bit more tactful about it than you're accustomed to? I took 25 quid a day less than their initial ballpark figure because they were prepared to do the flexibility. If they'd said absolutely not I'd have asked for 25 quid more, not ditched them. I'm working from home today, and I've already got more done than I did yesterday afternoon from London. The real silver lining though is they have an office refit coming up now, and don't have room for everyone, so I'm working from home 100% for six weeks soon, which wasn't part of the negotiation.

[d000hg]

With a brand new client, you have to build trust. Unless they are used to doing this, or you're in a position to dictate terms, I think the best you can hope for is to get an agreement that in principle they're open to the idea once you get settled in. If they simply say "no way, we wouldn't consider it" even if you push quite hard, you'd have to decide what to do. Otherwise you have to work into it, have a plan for how you're going to make it happen.

Don't say "I'll work from home Fridays" if you want them to take you seriously, perhaps

[SueEllen]

Option C - Ask about the company's working practices in a matter of fact way at interview. I've ended up with WFH from many clients for different reasons due to finding out the company's working practices at interview.

For some clients I ended up WFH due to having appointments for different things, and another because I had an op and couldn't get into the office. With that client I was allowed to WFH a lot after that but other permies and contractors weren't. Due to the nature of the work it was more productive to catch people in the office.

Current client doesn't have enough office space at some of their sites, so due to having teams spread nationally and internationally everyone who can do days at home who is primarily based at those sites is expected to.

[Lance]

I work on the assumption no flexibility from the off. I smash the work for the first month or two and when I've shown some value and gained their trust I'll mention it.
I've seen contractors come in and by the end of the first week they've asked for flexibility and it just turned the client right off.

This ^^^^^

Ask at interview, or prove yourself. No middle ground.

[coolhandluke]

We had a new contractor start last month who was traveling 200 odd miles and staying over. Before the interview the client told the agent straight out he wanted someone local due to a previous chap turning up at all hours. New guy was adamant it was no problem as he was staying local etc etc.

Turns up first day at 11am blames traffic. Can't understand why it took him 4 hours to drive 200 odd miles on a Monday. Within 30 minutes he was asking for WFH and early finishes. Nothing offered so he decided to finish at 3 anyway on a Friday.

Renewal comes up - sorry pal no more budget....

I can't stress enough how important it is to turn up and do a good days work until a good working relationship is established. The number of contractors I see taking the piss and being shown the door at renewal is staggering.