Reply to: LA International

[SueEllen]

FTFY

Actually not true.

Some clients use the same contractors again and again. If they bin the agency they still want to be able to use the contractors.

[chopper]

all clients don't care that contractors are forced to opt-out.

FTFY

[CoolCat]

Funnily enough another agency rang about the same gig a little bit later who don't push opting out

[SueEllen]

That is a shame must admit that my dealings with LA international have been superfluous over the years, never got past the 'you'll be perfect for this role' step...

We decided it was the independent view of each inspector. Just like different judges have different views and it has to go to a higher court to be determined on a particular set of circumstances, in this case it would involve someone taking an agency to a higher court to get a clarified view of the regulations in their own circumstances. It would also involve having both the client on boards as some clients don't realise that contractors are forced to opt-out.

[SlipTheJab]

SueEllen and Cojak went head to head about this. Sadly no mud was involved but... They both looked in detail and got different answers. I believe one got an answer that they can't do this and the other got told they recruitment agency are well within their rights to pick and chose who and in what manner they put people forward.

My advice was to read up on it in great detail, to the point you are comfortable enough to make a decision based on all the factors and then go for it. If you know enough and don't like it then don't do business with LA. If you feel the risk is too small to worry about when faced with the possibility of not getting a decent gig then go for it.

Ultimately it's down to you and the situation this puts you in IMO.

That is a shame must admit that my dealings with LA international have been superfluous over the years, never got past the 'you'll be perfect for this role' step...

[Bee]

I got this from Capital International for a contract in Portugal.
I remember to search about Opt-Out, Opt-In and Conduct Regulations of 2003.

They stated at the end of the agreement:

In particular, we understand that by signing this Opt-Out notification we are agreeing that the provisions of the Conduct Regulations 2003 shall not apply.

From LA International, I got a request for 2 references.

[SueEllen]

Searched my application history was put forward three times by them over the last 4 years, last time March 2016 and they never requested this.

Different agents doing different things?

Funny thing is apart from my fight with that agency - their contract was really tulip as it was about 30 pages long, was badly numbered and contained loads of meaningless phrases - I've not had issues with refusing to opt-out after that simply because the contracts have been simple in comparison to review and negotiate. I actually had another agency who I agreed to opt-out with but then found the the opt-out was invalid as I had to be DBS checked by the client. (One of the agents lives a few doors down from me.)

Also with some very large companies/organisations e.g. BT any restraint of trade clause unless it's carefully written will be invalid. However if you are not opted-out then then you have given yourself a restraint which may not have applied if you were opted-out.

[Eirikur]

LA International refusing to put people forward unless they agree to sign to opt out before initial discussion, how have others handled this?

Regards

Searched my application history was put forward three times by them over the last 4 years, last time March 2016 and they never requested this.

[northernladuk]

Correct.

I used to think it was against the law also, but in recent times I have come to realise they can legally do it.
The main issue is most of them don't know how to make you opt out properly (i.e. prior to interview), unlike this LA International lot that are part of the Hyphen Group, I believe.

I never understood why it could be against the law. It's about making a decision based on legislation as to how they do business. Like saying they won't deal with Self Employed people. It puts risk/work on them so they decide they don't want to touch it. It is a complex area though to be fair and as you say badly executed in a vast majority of cases.

[MrMarkyMark]

SueEllen and I have been given opposite advice on this, but this is the correspondence between me and BIS on this very question.

My question:


And their response:



So they can, I'm afraid.

Correct.

I used to think it was against the law also, but in recent times I have come to realise they can legally do it.
The main issue is most of them don't know how to make you opt out properly (i.e. prior to interview), unlike this LA International lot that are part of the Hyphen Group, I believe.

[northernladuk]

Fight fire with fire, tell them you absolutely wont do any business with them unless they agree for you to opt in.

Yeah man!! Stand up for the little people. Fight for your rights and don't let these companies roll over the average man in the street!!!





Could you mail me the details of the gig please?

[fullyautomatix]

LA International refusing to put people forward unless they agree to sign to opt out before initial discussion, how have others handled this?

Regards

Fight fire with fire, tell them you absolutely wont do any business with them unless they agree for you to opt in.

[cojak]

SueEllen and I have been given opposite advice on this, but this is the correspondence between me and BIS on this very question.

My question:

Hello, I have discovered 2 companies stating in their websites that following discussions WITH YOU they will not work with contractors who insist on remaining within The Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003 (Regulation 32) ('Opting- In'). Is this true and is this legal?

And their response:

Dear Cojak

EMPLOYMENT AGENCIES ACT 1973
Thank you for your email about employment agencies indicating that they will only seek to find work
for contractors who have opted out of the Conduct of Employment Agencies or Employment Businesses Regulations 2003. Your email has been passed to me to respond to you and I apologise for the delay in responding to you.
I can inform you that the Employment Agency Standards (EAS) Inspectorate, based in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, is responsible for enforcing the provisions of the Employment Agencies Act 1973 and associated regulations. This legislation requires employment agencies and employment businesses to abide by specified minimum standards of conduct. Further details about the legislation can be obtained from our website, www.bis.gov.uk/eas

I can advise you that it is not illegal under the Employment Agencies Act 1973 or Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003 for an employment agency or employment business to insist that they will only seek work for work-seekers who will agree to opt out of the Conduct Regulations. This is a business decision that employment agencies or employment business might make without contravening the employment agency legislation.

I hope this has clarified the position.

Regards
Steve Keeler

Head of Employment Agency Standards Department for Business, Innovation and Skills

So they can, I'm afraid.

[northernladuk]

SueEllen and Cojak went head to head about this. Sadly no mud was involved but... They both looked in detail and got different answers. I believe one got an answer that they can't do this and the other got told they recruitment agency are well within their rights to pick and chose who and in what manner they put people forward.

My advice was to read up on it in great detail, to the point you are comfortable enough to make a decision based on all the factors and then go for it. If you know enough and don't like it then don't do business with LA. If you feel the risk is too small to worry about when faced with the possibility of not getting a decent gig then go for it.

Ultimately it's down to you and the situation this puts you in IMO.

[MrMarkyMark]

LA International refusing to put people forward unless they agree to sign to opt out before initial discussion, how have others handled this?

Regards

Well, at least they understand how opting in and out works.

I guess you will just have to suck this up, if you want your CV to go forward.