Reply to: Finding it tough getting any client to bite (New to Contracting 9 years as a permi)

[daeus]

Ok I'm glad I posted.

Lots of useful information here to straighten up my plan of how I have been and now how I will attack this and also a great insight on you experienced contractors viewpoints so thank you for all the comments.

[Lambert Simnel]

Do you tailor your CV for every role you apply for? I have made mine as varied as possible to suit most roles I am applying for.

To echo NorthernLad's point, a varied, multi-faceted cv is fine if you're applying for a permie position. For a contract position, you're far better being a square peg for a square hole. Speak to the agents and if possible get the actual job spec for each position. Then tailor your cv towards that specific role - obviously not making stuff up, but bringing the relevant experience front and centre stage.

And to agree with the generally given advice, applying for a contract as an in-job permie with a month's notice will severely limit your opportunities. You need to indicate availability of no more than 2 weeks or a lot of vacancies will just pass you by.

[lawnmower]

The contract market is due to get very unstable and flooded very shortly. I'd ride it out in the permie role for the next six months and see what happens when the dust settles if I were you.

It's been bad (and has been flooded) for the last year, certainly in Testing. I'd recommend staying perm at the moment.

[SueEllen]

Thank you for your patronising level of condescending but I'm referring to the imminent arrival of public sector contractors into the private sector and the whole short-term basket case that public sector contracting will be.

But yeah, you encourage him to ditch his permie job and go for it.

Where in my replies did I tell him to resign?

I may have hinted for him to not to tell the truth to agents to get an interview but I haven't told him to resign.

[uk contractor]

Working for managed service providers is usually the kiss of death to any CV in this type of role as it means you were just someone who was handed the role as you worked for them & got assigned to the end client probably on a below current market rate at the time. End clients know this as the rep for working for managed service providers on infrastructure will not tick many boxes for hiring mangers. I would lose any reference to managed service providers on your CV just put the end clients name & if you get any interviews if asked that is the time to mention it was for a managed service provider working at xyz.


But as others already said now is not a good time for contractors even if there were many roles around your going to be near the bottom of the queue as your not immediately available & 9 years is not really anywhere near enough experience for these type of roles your going up against skilled contractors with 15-20 years genuine end client experience who are also immediately available.


Stick to perm for another 6 years then try again.

[northernladuk]

I think the OP was just stating he had something to offer, which is experience.

Possibly. There isn't enough detail there so I've given a generic opinion on what he might be doing wrong. It's very common for newbies to see the roles and just apply without thinking what the client wants and how contracting roles differ from permie ones. In permie land the person tends to be asset, in contracting his demonstrable skills are.

Having loads of technologies isn't necessarily a benefit to getting a gig.

If you were having a large kitchen put in. Do you get in a handyman that can do kitchens, along with bathrooms, bit of building and so on or do you get a kitchen fitter in that's done 100's of them?
If a client wants a citrix guy in does he go for someone with a bit of exchange, cloud, CRM and so on experience or does he get a guy that's delivered many citrix deployments in the past few years?

Obviously in some cases, depending on the details the advice isn't right but on the whole is a better way to think while applying. At the very least he might understand why he's not getting so many call backs.

[radish2008]

I had a British Gas bloke round to quote for a new boiler - £6000+. He never rang back. I went to the carpet shop and they measure up and give me a quote. They never ring back. I go to a car showroom; they prepare a proposal. They never ring back.

There's a reason most salesmen don't follow up: most leads don't go anywhere so you sap your lifeblood if you keep chasing.

We're salesmen. We can't afford to fret why leads don't move forward.

Some people on this channel go on about "Clients only have to hear the first letter of my christian name and they immediately issue a contract" but I think you'll find a lot of people are like me - you have to cast your hook a number of times before anything bites.

With regard to availability, always say "Two weeks or so" with some cock-and-bull justification (project finished early etc).

Personally, though I hate it, I think you are missing the main event if you're not on Jobserve, getting your 200 alerts a day

Totally agree with this. I work in software/database dev and often apply for lots of roles when on the bench. I've also worked in places and hired in - often roles get advertised and then budgets get cut, the hiring manager can't be arsed etc. etc. All these things could mean the agent gets a 'maybe' after he though he was on a cert and it turns into another non reply to a bunch of people who have applied. It's a n umbers game - for the past 4 years I've work via recommendations ... please, please, please, baby Jesus, make it stay like this forever ...

[radish2008]

Not if those skills are irrelevant to the delivery of the specified work. There is some middle ground where some skills will be useful yes but to quote a wide range of skills when the gig only require one of them would indicate he's not a specialist in that area. For example, I can't tell exactly what this guy is from his very short list of skills. If the client can't tell then they are going to move to the next CV where the guy can demonstrate delivering exactly what the client wants for the last x years.

I think the OP was just stating he had something to offer, which is experience.

[Cirrus]

I had a British Gas bloke round to quote for a new boiler - £6000+. He never rang back. I went to the carpet shop and they measure up and give me a quote. They never ring back. I go to a car showroom; they prepare a proposal. They never ring back.

There's a reason most salesmen don't follow up: most leads don't go anywhere so you sap your lifeblood if you keep chasing.

We're salesmen. We can't afford to fret why leads don't move forward.

Some people on this channel go on about "Clients only have to hear the first letter of my christian name and they immediately issue a contract" but I think you'll find a lot of people are like me - you have to cast your hook a number of times before anything bites.

With regard to availability, always say "Two weeks or so" with some cock-and-bull justification (project finished early etc).

Personally, though I hate it, I think you are missing the main event if you're not on Jobserve, getting your 200 alerts a day

[northernladuk]

I'd disagree with this - the more bows you have to your string the better, and generally multiple skills are essential in delivering what the client would see as a good deal.

Not if those skills are irrelevant to the delivery of the specified work. There is some middle ground where some skills will be useful yes but to quote a wide range of skills when the gig only require one of them would indicate he's not a specialist in that area. For example, I can't tell exactly what this guy is from his very short list of skills. If the client can't tell then they are going to move to the next CV where the guy can demonstrate delivering exactly what the client wants for the last x years.

[radish2008]

Varied is no good. You have to be a specialist. Employees can be generalist. When you are charging a high rate for your skills that are better than the next guy generalization won't work.

I'd disagree with this - the more bows you have to your string the better, and generally multiple skills are essential in delivering what the client would see as a good deal.

[northernladuk]

Hi Guys,

Since the end of December I have been applying on the below jobsites to contract roles for IT Infrastructure Engineering positions and other related roles and technologies in Central London in all sectors, I have no other requirement other than the role type using the skills/exp I have which generally match the day rate I want.

I think you are going about it the wrong way. You are a first time contractor, you are going to have to take the gigs you can to get on the ladder regardless of what you want day rate wise.

For every 10-15 contract roles I apply for I usually get around 2 calls from agents who I then allow to send my CV to their clients, however I do not hear, back after this.

I read in to that you are applying for a lot of roles which seems odd. Are you sure you are only applying for gigs where you match the requirements perfectly and have years of demonstrable skills that are being asked for? When contracting you are brought in to hit the ground running and add value to the client. Just applying for things you 'think' you could have a go at won't work. Someone out there will have skills and trump you.

I have 1 months notice in my current permenant role, I have said to agents I can possibly make this shorter, I'm wondering if this is a big issue? I've been told the larger companies will wait as they have the budget assigned.

Are you absolutely sure you can make it shorter? Will your employer agree. I think that's a massive risk. Either way 1 month notice isn't going to work. The number of roles that will wait are slim let alone your newness etc. You are going to be waiting a very long time and then there is the issue of the gig evaporating while you are waiting.

I have worked for three manage service providers over the last 6 years of my time in London (3 years previously in internal IT departments) so have very varied skills at the Citrix, Exchange, Microsoft, 3rd line, project positions.

Varied is no good. You have to be a specialist. Employees can be generalist. When you are charging a high rate for your skills that are better than the next guy generalization won't work.

I am seeing 2-4 new contracts posted daily to these sites so would say the market in my field is currently Ok

As I say are these gigs exactly your skill set and experience or 'nearly'?


Have you read all the newbie guides and learnt what contracting is? You know about LTD companies, need for an accountant, IR35, 24 month rule and the like?

[FrontEnder]

I have 1 months notice in my current permenant role, I have said to agents I can possibly make this shorter, I'm wondering if this is a big issue? I've been told the larger companies will wait as they have the budget assigned.

This will be an issue for most contracts. Companies usually want contractors in yesterday and agencies don't want to wait for their money to start rolling in. Sometime a company will be planning ahead for a big project and need someone in next month, but they're not often, in my experience.

I applied for a few contracts while on redundancy notice and didn't hear back - despite telling them that my employer would be willing to let me go early if something came up. Then I was unemployed for 1 week before landing my first contract gig.

[jmo21]

Has interviews already lined up, might take one of those before my client makes a decision - bin

Damned if you tell them, damned if you don't

yep, I knew I was missing a few :-)

it's hard to know what an agent will do with a piece of information. There is a fine line between:
"oh this guy is popular, must be good, is a shoe in for my role, I must put him forward"
"oh this guy is popular, must be good, is a shoe in for my role, but there is a good chance he will accept some other role, so I won't put him forward"

[doconline]

No interviews lined up already, must not be any good - bin

Has interviews already lined up, might take one of those before my client makes a decision - bin

Damned if you tell them, damned if you don't