Reply to: 1.5x rate difference in same team (same role, direct vs agancy)

[SlipTheJab]

Not true, I went to Mexico on holiday and didn't talk about my salary..

Going round and shouting at the locals (cue brummie accent) 'I yam considerably richer than yeow' counts.

[Agent]

Only in the UK do people refuse to talk salaries.

Not true, I went to Mexico on holiday and didn't talk about my salary..

[ladymuck]

The only way "your mate" gets a better rate is if you tell them either your rate, or the agency margin, either way its not good for you, keep quiet and enjoy the position as odds are later in your career it will be the other way round at some point

I think it's a bit late to keep quiet

[SimonMac]

Come renewal time your mate should get himself a better deal with the agency or leave, simples.

The only way "your mate" gets a better rate is if you tell them either your rate, or the agency margin, either way its not good for you, keep quiet and enjoy the position as odds are later in your career it will be the other way round at some point

[ladymuck]

I don't want to know what other contractors are on, genuinely not interested. If I'm happy with my rate, then that's all I care about. Can I pay my bills, have a couple of holidays, stash something in the war chest? Yes? Great.

It's my fault if I pick a role that doesn't pay enough and I will only do that as a filler and jump as soon as a better rate job comes up (or just not renew, whichever comes first).

[SueEllen]

Thanks for erroding the agencies margin... you direct contractors are the reason Trump won the election and probably play a big part in global warming.

Never discuss your rate, it's bad enough when permies share their salaries..

Only in the UK do people refuse to talk salaries.

[Agent]

Hi All,

I've been a contractor for a while but this year I seem to be making a blatant mistake after another.

Was having a few pints after work and somehow I managed to reveal my current rate to another contractor then he also shared his.

I was aware that he's via an agency and I'm direct but I was not expecting to have a 1.5x rate difference in my favour.

This puts us in a kind of a weird situation which I hope he'll handle nicely (and he said he wouldn't disclose any of this) but still I'm a bit worried.

Please tell me you've been in similar situation and it's OK In a weird way this feels to me a bit more respectful and honest and at least now he's aware how much more beneficial it could be to go direct (not that it was his choice in this case).

My main worry is how team dynamics could be ruined in the coming months.

Thanks for erroding the agencies margin... you direct contractors are the reason Trump won the election and probably play a big part in global warming.

Never discuss your rate, it's bad enough when permies share their salaries..

[northernladuk]

Right.. lets have a go at this car crash then.....

I work with 4 other contractors (well, one (a useless one) has just left), and I have found out that whilst we do the same job, I am the lowest paid of the bunch.
Now it could be that I did not negotiate when I started...

Must admit I'm not really one for pushing a negotiation too hard at the beginning. I'd rather secure the gig than put myself out for the sake of a few 10's of quid but in 8 years I've yet to be screwed over so must be doing something right.

but I view it this way...

Here we go.....

1) I am happy with the rate I am getting. Yes, I could be getting more, but I am happy I am making a tonne of cash whilst still being value for money for my client

F that. You can still be value to a client by being paid the rate they ask for. It's likely they are on a rate card so you being screwed over by the agent is absolutely nothing to them. In fact you mention it's a PS so I know most use a standard card rate. I see absolutely nothing wrong with being paid the correct rate for what I do. Yes be happy you signed for the rate but don't sit on your hands. Make the agent aware you will be asking for a rate rise at next renewal. You can be happy with what you are on but you can also be happy you are being paid what you are due. You losing money out of your pocket doesn't help the client at all.

2) If things get tight, who will they get rid of first - the higher paid or the lower paid (assuming we are doing the same job and to the same quality)

I'd say in a vast majority of cases this is wrong. They will get rid of the person they like the least, irrespective of rate. I don't believe they will keep you on because you are cheaper. You assume quality being a level playing field. Be better and tip the playing field in your favour. It's dog eat dog and I'd be doing anything I can to make sure I'm the one that stays, but not because I'm a bit cheaper. I am assuming you are through an agent and are on a rate card here so you aren't actually cheaper to the client at all.

3) Come renewal time, if I wanted to stay here (its a PS gig, so at the moment, I am working through my options) I have a lot more to work with in terms of them making up the IR35 tax differences

So really your options about getting your rate back are nil now as the goal posts have changed significantly. I'd put this one down as a lesson learned and don't do it again when you get a new gig.

If everybody got paid the same for doing the same job.. thats called socialism, and its bad news for the world. After all, why should somebody who works a job and produces 1000 widgets a day get paid the same as somebody doing the same job who only produces 500 widgets a day. There is no incentive for the 500 widget guy to up his production, but there is now an incentive for the 1000 to start slacking off and reduce his output to 500 widgets a day.

I've no idea what any of this means but if you are a company selling the same services as the next guy, remember you said equal quality, then you should expect to be paid exactly the same. Your comments also smack of permie mentality. You are business selling skills. Socialism doesn't even come in to it. You sell for the most you can and let everyone else take gigs at less than they are worth. Sod em. The incentive for you is to get paid the best you can for your skills. End of.

Again, assuming the agent is trousering the difference between you and the guy getting paid more you are doing nothing more than lining his pocket which isn't a benefit to anyone, in fact you are rewarding the agent for screwing people over and he's going to try it again and again.

Being happy you are being screwed over by your agent (or even client) is not smart or clever IMO.

[northernladuk]

Hi All,

I've been a contractor for a while but this year I seem to be making a blatant mistake after another.

Was having a few pints after work and somehow I managed to reveal my current rate to another contractor then he also shared his.

This is stupid. Don't ever do it again. You know why now.

This puts us in a kind of a weird situation which I hope he'll handle nicely (and he said he wouldn't disclose any of this) but still I'm a bit worried.

Please tell me you've been in similar situation and it's OK In a weird way this feels to me a bit more respectful and honest and at least now he's aware how much more beneficial it could be to go direct (not that it was his choice in this case).

My main worry is how team dynamics could be ruined in the coming months.

If I was the other guy I'd be seriously pissed off for that much and cause a right stink. I'd be citing you as the reason as well so I'd say you are right to be worried.

I don't think they'll do anything daft like bin you for it but I wouldn't be surprised if there is some fall out from this. Not wanting to be too harsh but you've only got yourself to blame but at least you've learnt a very valuable lesson.

[SlipTheJab]

A old client story for you, I was on 15 quid a day less than a mate of mine doing the same role in the same team, thing is he'd negotiated a higher rate with 5 days in the office for his renewal, for my renewal i opted for 2 days WFH rather than more money, if I factor in less commute, seeing more of my kids before and after work and spending less on travel I was actually on more than him, its not all about the daily rate.

[jmo21]

twice in the last few years, another contractor at same client has told me what rate they were on, in a "oh it's a pretty decent rate here" type of way, without actually asking me what I was on.

Both times I didn't tell them what I was on, and both times it was significantly more than them.

[SlipTheJab]

I'm sorry.. But WTF did I just read????

Get with it Spasibo Comrade

[northernladuk]

I'm sorry.. But WTF did I just read????

[ShandyDrinker]

I work with 4 other contractors (well, one (a useless one) has just left), and I have found out that whilst we do the same job, I am the lowest paid of the bunch.
Now it could be that I did not negotiate when I started... but I view it this way...

1) I am happy with the rate I am getting. Yes, I could be getting more, but I am happy I am making a tonne of cash whilst still being value for money for my client
2) If things get tight, who will they get rid of first - the higher paid or the lower paid (assuming we are doing the same job and to the same quality)
3) Come renewal time, if I wanted to stay here (its a PS gig, so at the moment, I am working through my options) I have a lot more to work with in terms of them making up the IR35 tax differences

If everybody got paid the same for doing the same job.. thats called socialism, and its bad news for the world. After all, why should somebody who works a job and produces 1000 widgets a day get paid the same as somebody doing the same job who only produces 500 widgets a day. There is no incentive for the 500 widget guy to up his production, but there is now an incentive for the 1000 to start slacking off and reduce his output to 500 widgets a day.

What if you were the person producing 1000 widgets and the 500 widgets person was earning more than you. I challenge anyone to not be riled by that situation eventually.

[jonnyboy]

I work with 4 other contractors (well, one (a useless one) has just left), and I have found out that whilst we do the same job, I am the lowest paid of the bunch.
Now it could be that I did not negotiate when I started... but I view it this way...

1) I am happy with the rate I am getting. Yes, I could be getting more, but I am happy I am making a tonne of cash whilst still being value for money for my client
2) If things get tight, who will they get rid of first - the higher paid or the lower paid (assuming we are doing the same job and to the same quality)
3) Come renewal time, if I wanted to stay here (its a PS gig, so at the moment, I am working through my options) I have a lot more to work with in terms of them making up the IR35 tax differences

If everybody got paid the same for doing the same job.. thats called socialism, and its bad news for the world. After all, why should somebody who works a job and produces 1000 widgets a day get paid the same as somebody doing the same job who only produces 500 widgets a day. There is no incentive for the 500 widget guy to up his production, but there is now an incentive for the 1000 to start slacking off and reduce his output to 500 widgets a day.