Reply to: Permie Trying To Off-load Unwanted Work - Time To Walk

[SueEllen]

I've never left a contract part way through and I guess what I'm trying to get at is how do I deal with potential agency/client questions and assumptions. Often when you are looking for another contract the first question that is asked is 'why did you leave?' or 'how long was the contract?' or 'was it extended/is there a chance of extension?'. As part of the vetting or referencing process would agencies in particular ask these questions to previous clients? I know that I am running a commercial business but the reality is that these questions are asked and conclusions made so my concern is that not honoring a contract is seen in a negative light. If any of you have been in similar situations how did you handle these scenarios?

My notice is one week and the update is I'm doing the work from Monday but this is only because I have no other contract to go to and don't want to just hand my notice in without one. However it is BAU and outside of the programme, calls for knowledge I do not have (it's technical as well as administrative) and has no relevance to the role I currently am contracted to do. On top of that my 'boss' can be bolshy and really likes this manipulative permie. Trying to guilt trip me with comments that the guy has too much work and is'breaking under the strain' seems over the top to say the least.

You left because the work finished.

And your reference is your other agency if need be or in loads of cases you don't need to give one.

[MrMarkyMark]

Provided you are happy to be inside IR35 and throughly miserable continue working - personally, the time to take a stand has come and gone and its now too late
....

This, you have rolled over and have to accept the consequences of that decision.
They don't sound very pretty.

[eek]

I've never left a contract part way through and I guess what I'm trying to get at is how do I deal with potential agency/client questions and assumptions. Often when you are looking for another contract the first question that is asked is 'why did you leave?' or 'how long was the contract?' or 'was it extended/is there a chance of extension?'. As part of the vetting or referencing process would agencies in particular ask these questions to previous clients? I know that I am running a commercial business but the reality is that these questions are asked and conclusions made so my concern is that not honoring a contract is seen in a negative light. If any of you have been in similar situations how did you handle these scenarios?

My notice is one week and the update is I'm doing the work from Monday but this is only because I have no other contract to go to and don't want to just hand my notice in without one. However it is BAU and outside of the programme, calls for knowledge I do not have (it's technical as well as administrative) and has no relevance to the role I currently am contracted to do. On top of that my 'boss' can be bolshy and really likes this manipulative permie. Trying to guilt trip me with comments that the guy has too much work and is'breaking under the strain' seems over the top to say the least.

Provided you are happy to be inside IR35 and throughly miserable continue working - personally, the time to take a stand has come and gone and its now too late
....

[Willy Win]

No. You came to the end of the agreed work and left. If anything clients are happier that you'll walk once work is completed rather than hanging on to eek out every penny you can.

Explain what to potential clients? Your contract is commercial in confidence so you're contracted leaving date is none of their business.

I've never left a contract part way through and I guess what I'm trying to get at is how do I deal with potential agency/client questions and assumptions. Often when you are looking for another contract the first question that is asked is 'why did you leave?' or 'how long was the contract?' or 'was it extended/is there a chance of extension?'. As part of the vetting or referencing process would agencies in particular ask these questions to previous clients? I know that I am running a commercial business but the reality is that these questions are asked and conclusions made so my concern is that not honoring a contract is seen in a negative light. If any of you have been in similar situations how did you handle these scenarios?

My notice is one week and the update is I'm doing the work from Monday but this is only because I have no other contract to go to and don't want to just hand my notice in without one. However it is BAU and outside of the programme, calls for knowledge I do not have (it's technical as well as administrative) and has no relevance to the role I currently am contracted to do. On top of that my 'boss' can be bolshy and really likes this manipulative permie. Trying to guilt trip me with comments that the guy has too much work and is'breaking under the strain' seems over the top to say the least.

[missinggreenfields]

And it might have been there for 48 years but as this article discusses it is the basis of the discussion but is no way the final say and has been altered and attempted to be applied numerous times. Heavy but interesting read.

Difference Between Employee And Independent Contractor | Law Teacher

It's not an article. As the advertising blocks point out in the middle of it, "This law essay is an example of a student's work" - and a student who does not know the difference between "sort" and "sought" as a starting point.

Until RMC is overturned, that's where it says that you need all three to be an employee. The implication being that one cannot be an employee (or a disguised employee) if one (or more than one) pillars of employment is absent - that's the case law, which is why HMRC wanted to change the IR35 rules so that only one of the three was required to fall inside IR35.

[northernladuk]

Ready Mixed Concrete (South East) Ltd v Minister of Pensions and National Insurance shows that you need all three to be an employee. It's been there for 48 years now.

And it might have been there for 48 years but as this article discusses it is the basis of the discussion but is no way the final say and has been altered and attempted to be applied numerous times. Heavy but interesting read.

Difference Between Employee And Independent Contractor | Law Teacher

[LondonManc]

Not yet. Why do you think the PSC changes are structured as they are?

To remain suitably ambiguous because it may not suit HMRC to ever provide a comprehensive definition of a PSC?

[eek]

OK I suck at these legal things but being inside and outside IR35 isn't the same is it? You can be inside IR35 but still not be classed an employee as per this case. So yes, interesting discussion between of service and for service but an IR35 case has many different merits with a different outcome?

Not yet. Why do you think the PSC changes are structured as they are?

[northernladuk]

Ready Mixed Concrete (South East) Ltd v Minister of Pensions and National Insurance shows that you need all three to be an employee. It's been there for 48 years now.

OK I suck at these legal things but being inside and outside IR35 isn't the same is it? You can be inside IR35 but still not be classed an employee as per this case. So yes, interesting discussion between of service and for service but an IR35 case has many different merits with a different outcome?

[missinggreenfields]

I don't think we've any case law to show that having just one is enough without all the other elements around it either so 'only need one to be outside' still doesn't sound good enough to rest your laurels on IMO.

Ready Mixed Concrete (South East) Ltd v Minister of Pensions and National Insurance shows that you need all three to be an employee. It's been there for 48 years now.

[SussexSeagull]

If you think you can get something else then serve notice as it is fast becoming a job.

[northernladuk]

Personally, I see my job as doing whatever my client wants. I'll clean the server room if they think that's the best use of my time. As I explained in another thread, I was hired by one person who has now gone, so my role is very different to what I signed up for, but they pay well so I'll stick at it.

Obviously if IR35 is the be all and end all for you it's a different matter.

If we all did that the contracting would have died years ago and we'd all be on PAYE. Poor attitude that doesn't help those that want to do it properly and get paid the rates we do. Undermines everything we are using to fight HMRC.

[eek]

Personally, I see my job as doing whatever my client wants. I'll clean the server room if they think that's the best use of my time. As I explained in another thread, I was hired by one person who has now gone, so my role is very different to what I signed up for, but they pay well so I'll stick at it.

Obviously if IR35 is the be all and end all for you it's a different matter.

I see a lot of the above at current clientco people employed as no rights contractors as they can't even employ people on fixed term contracts for political reasons.

Sadly that's not what i am. I'm a skilled specialist resource who would prefer zero politics (it's why I'm a contractor) and the ability to do the job I'm being paid to deliver

[LondonManc]

Personally, I see my job as doing whatever my client wants. I'll clean the server room if they think that's the best use of my time. As I explained in another thread, I was hired by one person who has now gone, so my role is very different to what I signed up for, but they pay well so I'll stick at it.

Obviously if IR35 is the be all and end all for you it's a different matter.

IR35 shouldn't be the be all and end all for any of us but it's far more desirable to be outside.

[MrMarkyMark]

Personally, I see my job as doing whatever my client wants. I'll clean the server room if they think that's the best use of my time. As I explained in another thread, I was hired by one person who has now gone, so my role is very different to what I signed up for, but they pay well so I'll stick at it.

Obviously if IR35 is the be all and end all for you it's a different matter.

So, you are declaring the contract inside then, obviously?

IR35 certainly has ended things for some, often due to bankruptcy.
As long as its "not the be and end all for you", I guess that doesn't matter.