Reply to: Asked for commitment in very fluid situation

[northernladuk]

Interesting thread...

I notice a lot of comments about the contract (and deciding whether or not to break it). Does it matter if your contract isn't with the client, but with an agency?

If you have a contract and the terms have been breached then you have a problem whoever the contract is with. Outcomes can be different depending on who owns it though. Fairly complex question really.

My first thought is that it might be worse, since you're (well, I would be) much more likely to get repeat business from an agent than from a client (it depends, though). I suppose it's true that you potentially upset two entities, rather than just one.

Agent would sell their own grandmother's to make money. It certainly won't help if you are amongst a number of potential candidates for the next gig but if you are the one that will make them money they'll be your best friend again.

I can't see any arguments that would mean it is better if your contract is with an agent. Are there any?

It's complicated and it depends on the situation. Agents factor payments so payment terms will tend to be better through an agent as one example. In general the more people in a chain the more problems can occur.

I also wonder about the substitution argument - how easy is it to actually do that? If you are operating as a limited company, is it not possible to hire someone else, probably another contractor, to do the work for you? Is that sub-contracting?

It is. Sending someone in in your place if you want to leave is substitution. Both are extremely difficult to do as clients and agents rarely understand this and may not be too happy losing control so are more likely to refuse and go find someone themselves.

[northernladuk]

What is this!!! Trolling in the pro forums?

Honestly. I wish you'd drop the tolling rubbish. You post more than enough off topic comments yourself so you shouldn't be calling everyone that replied to you trolling. Even the on topic stuff makes no sense most of the time. An off topic reply is hardly trolling either.

I'm sure you are already reporting everyone but if you don't like it report it and a mod will do the needful.

[dwater]

Interesting thread...

I notice a lot of comments about the contract (and deciding whether or not to break it). Does it matter if your contract isn't with the client, but with an agency?

My first thought is that it might be worse, since you're (well, I would be) much more likely to get repeat business from an agent than from a client (it depends, though). I suppose it's true that you potentially upset two entities, rather than just one.

I can't see any arguments that would mean it is better if your contract is with an agent. Are there any?

I also wonder about the substitution argument - how easy is it to actually do that? If you are operating as a limited company, is it not possible to hire someone else, probably another contractor, to do the work for you? Is that sub-contracting?

[dwater]

In Usenet days it was called top posting and very much frowned upon!

I miss usenet...all these alternatives (slack, web forums/etc) seem to have very little to add :/

[Bee]

For anyone on a sockie hunt, conclusive proof that Bee and pyschocandy are different people.

What is this!!! Trolling in the pro forums?

[Bee]

But if you do this and continue to get gigs with new clients and make money, exactly why is it a problem?

This could be considered a culture shock.

If in the UK you can do crap deliveries to the client and continue to get gigs move on...

[billybiro]

If you are a company's director, you have to make that your company have profit by selling products, services whatever you want. You can't lose clients or contracts and you can't break your commitments unless there is a very good reason for that. If you leave a client, you need to make sure the doors will be open in the future. If you are jumping contracts to contracts without a valid reason, you will breaking bridges.

But if you do this and continue to get gigs with new clients and make money, exactly why is it a problem?

[LondonManc]

If you are a company's director, you have to make that your company have profit by selling products, services whatever you want. You can't lose clients or contracts and you can't break your commitments unless there is a very good reason for that. If you leave a client, you need to make sure the doors will be open in the future. If you are jumping contracts to contracts without a valid reason, you will breaking bridges.

For anyone on a sockie hunt, conclusive proof that Bee and pyschocandy are different people.

[Bee]

I think it is for company director to decide that. Most decisions in life a subjective and only based on available information.

This question is from business studies 1st year 1st chapter.
"Responsibility to stakeholders"
And customer is usually not on the top....

If you are a company's director, you have to make that your company have profit by selling products, services whatever you want. You can't lose clients or contracts and you can't break your commitments unless there is a very good reason for that. If you leave a client, you need to make sure the doors will be open in the future. If you are jumping contracts to contracts without a valid reason, you will breaking bridges.

[LondonManc]

Indeed; it's a risk, not a bloody tactic!

[northernladuk]

Assessing risks is part of decision making. We all know that both parties have many holes on how get away without actual breach in contract. Send substitute, sickness etc.

[LondonManc]

It's very simple. The client has all the money. We want it. We have to play by their rules. Welcome to the real world of non-permiedom.

[WTFH]

I think it is for company director to decide that. Most decisions in life a subjective and only based on available information.

This question is from business studies 1st year 1st chapter.
"Responsibility to stakeholders"
And customer is usually not on the top....

So, why do you claim all customers are unreliable and all contracts are invalid?

[MrMarkyMark]

I think it is for company director to decide that. Most decisions in life a subjective and only based on available information.

This question is from business studies 1st year 1st chapter.
"Responsibility to stakeholders"
And customer is usually not on the top....

We all appreciate everything you learnt in Business Studies, heck, even I can remember some

QQFY- How many repeat customers have you had/got?

By putting the customer first, I've had plenty, in fact just on my 3rd "visit" to one particular client.
I will have invoiced 500K+ by the time the next 6 months are done.

Obviously YMMV

[AndrewK]

This isn't business studies course but the real world.

In the real world if you just walk out on a contract with no notice breaching your contractual agreement the other party is entitled to sue for their losses in court and would win. Most cases don't go in front of a judge because people reach agreements over compensation.

Assessing risks is part of decision making. We all know that both parties have many holes on how get away without actual breach in contract. Send substitute, sickness etc.