How to best educate non IT people how time intensive it is?

[MrMarkyMark]

This might be an oddball but a serious question in reality.

When faced with non IT clients that have asked you to build a complex system that is just an idea in their mind and they really believe that you can deliver in two weeks, what do you find working best educating them?

Please keep this on topic.


Client has his education from films and genuinely thinks software development looks like this

Break down all the tasks and assign times to them.
Try and illustrate it showing the amounts of people involved, the cooperation, the timescales for their deliveries to you etc.

[DallasDad]

I have worked in organisations where it can take 2 months to build a VM server due to the process/governance required, whereas the actual VM creation and config can be done in 1/2day easily.

I worked for that client at HP as well once!

[kaiser78]

At lot of the time it is the process and governance that needs to be undertaken in order things done that adds the delay, rather than task itself.

I have worked in organisations where it can take 2 months to build a VM server due to the process/governance required, whereas the actual VM creation and config can be done in 1/2day easily. Trying though to explain this and the reasons why to non-tech stakeholders or even tech stakeholders for that matter can be a tough sell.

[DallasDad]

Put your PM hat on for a few minutes with the client.

Most clients have a whiteboard
You provide the post it notes - you always have a pack of those in your handbag don't you?

Do a bit of brainstorming identify the requirements write them down as tasks and estimate elapsed time and have a go at producing a critical path by juggling the post its around till it starts to make sense.

As a first pass it won't capture everything but it will demonstrate and educate all in one.

One of the best trainers I have come across and refer to on site often is Chris Croft

If you do not know what I am on about watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr2-...6Qf5tJacXEqbjf

[LondonManc]

I saw one recently in the form "How long would it take to add a menu option to do [extremely complicated process]?". It was very tempting to reply with "2 minutes".

The menu option would take two minutes!

Exactly what they asked for as well

[VectraMan]

I saw one recently in the form "How long would it take to add a menu option to do [extremely complicated process]?". It was very tempting to reply with "2 minutes".

[Bee]

This might be an oddball but a serious question in reality.

When faced with non IT clients that have asked you to build a complex system that is just an idea in their mind and they really believe that you can deliver in two weeks, what do you find working best educating them?

Please keep this on topic.


Client has his education from films and genuinely thinks software development looks like this

If you are a PM, it's important to develop skills in order to be able to spoke with non IT people.

Show and explain them the scope, general design and the project plan. It's also very important to keep them updated in each phase, with is, they will learn that it's not like in the movies.
Be very patient.

[DimPrawn]

When faced with non IT clients that have asked you to build a complex system that is just an idea in their mind and they really believe that you can deliver in two weeks, what do you find working best educating them?

[LondonManc]

I was in a meeting once where I was asked for an estimate. Five months I said. Some manager (non-IT) said - "really? I thought it would be about 4 weeks? Where do you get your figure from?".

"Same place you got yours".

He shut up after that. This wasn't a client as such - we were all working for the client - so maybe a little more politeness would be in order.

Ah, so it's not just on here that you're like that! Are you short?

[Old Greg]

Show them this: http://forums.contractoruk.com/searc...archid=3199493

[cojak]

Or ask them what they think happens in film post-production, then ask them to estimate how long films are in post-production.

http://www.raindance.org/the-13-step...st-production/

[SueEllen]

Client has his education from films and genuinely thinks software development looks like this

The graphics on films like that take longer than 2 weeks to do.

Anyway ask them politely to explain where they got their timescale from. Then explain using an example or two, preferably famous examples, why it will take months or even years.

[NotAllThere]

I was in a meeting once where I was asked for an estimate. Five months I said. Some manager (non-IT) said - "really? I thought it would be about 4 weeks? Where do you get your figure from?".

"Same place you got yours".

He shut up after that. This wasn't a client as such - we were all working for the client - so maybe a little more politeness would be in order.

[jamesbrown]

Ask them to articulate the reasons they believe this can be done in two weeks and then systematically dismantle their beliefs, as professionally as possible (if you like them) Seriously, though, you need to understand the origins of their beliefs before you can address them.

Ordinarily, the reason someone brings in an expert is to get their expert advice. If you don't have their trust or they are a type A that knows enough to be dangerous, it's going to be harder, but the starting point is to understand why they think something complex is simple (vs. waiting for you to educate them about the level of complexity).

[zazou]

This might be an oddball but a serious question in reality.

When faced with non IT clients that have asked you to build a complex system that is just an idea in their mind and they really believe that you can deliver in two weeks, what do you find working best educating them?

Please keep this on topic.


Client has his education from films and genuinely thinks software development looks like this