Reply to: FYI: Manchester Client insisting on IR35 caught contract terms

[FK1]

A contract template is not the same as the final agreed contract.

But it demonstrates (in general) how professional and adequate they are.
I need to pick just one for a role, so they compete.

Good point.

I was coming more from NLUK's angle that it's not your business, even if it is just a template. But I've also never asked though either.

It is definitely my business. If there is a real role and they want me then they normally give me such courtesy. Yes, a half of them reject that or disappear after the request. But a good filter isn't it?

I've learned the hard way that the gig isn't yours until your IR35-friendly contract is signed and you're sat at your allocated desk on client site. Get the contract checked and keep on the market until it's signed and you are at your start date.

A typical in my very niche when 1 real role is advertised by not less than 4 agencies. It is even a test for me to check is it the fishing or an actual vacancy.

And the most disappointing thing when you stick with one agency that start represent you and you discover a crap terms just 2-3 days before a contract start.

Another one with better contract terms could not represent you because of you are already represented and interviewed by the first one.

I see only one way to deal with it - form your own agencies preferred list, check them well before. Including Companies House check, contract templates.

Maybe also at least two references from contractors they placed recently?

Exactly.

You can either be a BoS permietractor without integrity, on-site, working and invoicing, or you can be a "proper" contractor reflecting on your bounteous integrity whilst you sit on the bench earning f*$% all!

That is the reality check, yes. However I experienced that certain IR35 unfriendly wordings usually reflect what they expect from me. I simply do not fit a temporary employee role. The freelancer/contractor mentality is inside me.

[Major Hassle]

Exactly.

You can either be a BoS permietractor without integrity, on-site, working and invoicing, or you can be a "proper" contractor reflecting on your bounteous integrity whilst you sit on the bench earning f*$% all!

Getting a profitable customer to buy from a business for the first time is often difficult and expensive. The key to a successful business is to persuade that customer to buy again, and again. That is what is meant by repeat business.....

[northernladuk]

Exactly.

You can either be a BoS permietractor without integrity, on-site, working and invoicing, or you can be a "proper" contractor reflecting on your bounteous integrity whilst you sit on the bench earning f*$% all!

Erm. Thanks for that :

[billybiro]

But I'm happy to be a BoS / SSCC and will continue to do so for many years to come, I hope.

Exactly.

You can either be a BoS permietractor without integrity, on-site, working and invoicing, or you can be a "proper" contractor reflecting on your bounteous integrity whilst you sit on the bench earning f*$% all!

[LondonManc]

I've learned the hard way that the gig isn't yours until your IR35-friendly contract is signed and you're sat at your allocated desk on client site. Get the contract checked and keep on the market until it's signed and you are at your start date.

[SueEllen]

Good point.

I was coming more from NLUK's angle that it's not your business, even if it is just a template. But I've also never asked though either.

I've seen a couple of upper contract templates and parts of two upper contracts. I didn't specifically go out of my way to see them.

[Antman]

A contract template is not the same as the final agreed contract.

Good point.

I was coming more from NLUK's angle that it's not your business, even if it is just a template. But I've also never asked though either.

[SueEllen]

Can't see an agency ever giving you the upper-tier contract. The business model is based on you not knowing what they charge you out at.

A contract template is not the same as the final agreed contract.

[northernladuk]

Can't see an agency ever giving you the upper-tier contract. The business model is based on you not knowing what they charge you out at.

The contract doesn't necessarily and I'll bet in most cases doesn't include the rate. But he'll rarely get it as the contract between client and agent has nothing to do with the contractor, even if he argues it could screw his IR35 case up. He can ask though.

[Antman]

I've got the impression 90% of all contractors fall into that definition.
Almost every second contract I had to ask an agency to amend contract terms to a reasonable standard.
Now I ask for their contract templates prior any permission from me.
Both upper-tier (client-agency) and lower-tier (contractor-agency) contract templates.

Can't see an agency ever giving you the upper-tier contract. The business model is based on you not knowing what they charge you out at.

[FK1]

Bum on Seat - permietractors who blindly sign contracts, aren't aware/bothered about IR35 other than asking the agent if the contract's IR35 friendly and accepting the answer, don't know about the new T&S stuff.

I've got the impression 90% of all contractors fall into that definition.
Almost every second contract I had to ask an agency to amend contract terms to a reasonable standard.
Now I ask for their contract templates prior any permission from me.
Both upper-tier (client-agency) and lower-tier (contractor-agency) contract templates.

[missinggreenfields]

Which will never happen.

For some of us, it will

But nearly all my IR35 caught income goes into my pension pot anyway.

[Old Greg]

Which will never happen.

It's useful to educate clients.

[northernladuk]

For IR35 caught contracts, my starting price is about 30% more. If there is travel involved, then it's 50% more than the outside rate.

Which will never happen.

[missinggreenfields]

If it's an easy commute, you could have just asked for an extra £50 a day due to your LtdCo's rate card for working under IR35 caught contracts.

£50 a day seems incredibly low when you factor in the additional costs of being inside IR35 (unless you can afford to whack all the money into the pension plan).

For IR35 caught contracts, my starting price is about 30% more. If there is travel involved, then it's 50% more than the outside rate.