Reply to: fair on call payment?

[psychocandy]

Have this sort of request a few times over the years and always TRY to help out if I can. One or two points though:-

1. Get it in the contract.
2. Work out with client what rate it'll be if and when you get called. (i.e. its ok to get flat rate but make sure its in contract).

But beware of saying yes ok without getting details or discussing with client. E.g If permies get £30 a day then some clients will expect you to do if for same - just say no - after all you're base day rate is more than a permie.

As above, what happens if you get called. Will they pay per hour or what? Will it be an enhanced or flat rate - flat rate is ok mostly for me.

If called, can you do remotely or is there a chance you might have to come to office? If its 2nd one, do you really want to agree to driving miles and screwing up your weekend for a few more quid. And check they'll pay for your travel time too.....

Worse case. I had one client (HP) who asked me (20 years ago this was). Offered me £20 a day same as permies. No remote access. If a problem occured I'd have to drive an hour into office. Then they'd only pay me my flat hourly rate whilst there - no minimum 4 hours or anything like that. Could have driven an hour, fixed problem in 30 mins, driven home an hour and got something like £18. (and they wouldn't pay for expenses so it was 100 mile round trip plus whatever Severn bridge cost back then £5 or so).

In this case I said no way jose.

[northernladuk]

In my opinion BAU isn't any more of an IR35 issue than development roles. If they have come to realize that infrastructure and standards need dedicated staff and it's not just another facet of development then you are providing skills they don't have in-house and once the infrastructure is in place it's no more an ongoing role than development.

I'd have a read of these and think that opinion through again then. Filling a permie position is a temp.

http://www.contractoruk.com/news/001..._it_roles.html

http://www.contractoruk.com/ir35/can...e_me_ir35.html

Item 5 of the article below.
http://www.clearskyaccounting.co.uk/...e/guides/ir35/

Example 4 below
http://www.contractoruk.com/ir35/whe...35_status.html

And many more. He's also being controlled by being asked to do work outside his schedule (unless that did mention on call) and although we don't known I'd be checking the existing schedule as there is a likelyhood it could just look like a job spec that a statement of work.

[BigRed]

I love not being on call. Being a contractor means the money doesn't matter so much unless they want to make special (expensive) arrangements which are normally short term because of the cost, then it's a win-win.

In my opinion BAU isn't any more of an IR35 issue than development roles. If they have come to realize that infrastructure and standards need dedicated staff and it's not just another facet of development then you are providing skills they don't have in-house and once the infrastructure is in place it's no more an ongoing role than development.

[northernladuk]

If being on call would mean being IR35 caught, then to be fair you're probably already caught or close to it.

Rota has a sniff of part-and-parcel about it. Impossible for anyone to say without more detail and opinions are just that. As others have said, if you're happy to work like that, it can be factored into the rate.

I'd agree. I'm guessing IR35 is already a problem if he's part of a BAU support team with permie colleagues and then working off contract on top of part and parcel is going to just add to his woes. It 'could' be factored in but realisticly it's extremely unlikely clients are going to pay more than they expect just because of a general support bods tax problems.

[Contreras]

nah I'd rather pass, it's not worth it. Thanks for the advice!

IR35 is a crime now?

If being on call would mean being IR35 caught, then to be fair you're probably already caught or close to it.

Rota has a sniff of part-and-parcel about it. Impossible for anyone to say without more detail and opinions are just that. As others have said, if you're happy to work like that, it can be factored into the rate.

[northernladuk]

1.5x standard rate is the norm plus an hourly rate if it goes beyond a set time span say more than a professional working day of 8-10 hours.

Standard rate for a permie?

[uk contractor]

1.5x standard rate is the norm plus an hourly rate if it goes beyond a set time span say more than a professional working day of 8-10 hours.

[LondonManc]

nah I'd rather pass, it's not worth it. Thanks for the advice!

Don't necessarily pass it up. Consider speaking to QDOS about it to see what their take on it is; we're simply looking at it from a "part and parcel" IR35 stance.

Another option is a second, entirely new support contract with your company and no named person, whereby your limited company has the support contract with the client. Again, just a speculation - QDOS will have dealt with things like this and we're just making suggestions/warnings.

[LondonManc]

Well bearing in mind it's gonna put you at risk of being inside IR35 I'd say a lot!!!!

Depends. If it's time-boxed to a deliverable and an addendum to the main contract is issued to specify that, then it should be fine. If it's BAU then that, as you quite rightly say, is an IR35 pointer.

OP, as NLUK says, let your quote reflect the circumstances of your offer.

[cinek]

Looks like you are shafted then.........although you could choose to take the risk.

nah I'd rather pass, it's not worth it. Thanks for the advice!

[MrMarkyMark]

the other guy is perm. I'm not a specialist. It would be for major escallations only as we're responsible for the infrastructure. It'll most likely be for the duration of the contract however there's no mention of being on call in the contract

Looks like you are shafted then.........although you could choose to take the risk.

The situation I was describing I was the lead, for that particular technology and project, onsite.
It wasn't in the contract specifically, but it was for such a limited time and for a particular, warranty type, circumstance, rather than BAU.
Therefore, not really an issue.

[cinek]

OK, <<places tooth in cup>> got anything else for us to work with, type of work done, whether these other on call people are perms etc.
You may have a better argument if you are a product specialist, and / or its for a stated, contracted, limited time, for example

the other guy is perm. I'm not a specialist. It would be for major escallations only as we're responsible for the infrastructure. It'll most likely be for the duration of the contract however there's no mention of being on call in the contract

[MrMarkyMark]

there's no go live or anything like that, they need few more people to be on call to spread it out a bit as currenty there's only 1 person

OK, <<places tooth in cup>> got anything else for us to work with, type of work done, whether these other on call people are perms etc.
You may have a better argument if you are a product specialist, and / or its for a stated, contracted, limited time, for example

[cinek]

Well, we cant advise any further without details.

there's no go live or anything like that, they need few more people to be on call to spread it out a bit as currenty only 1 person is doing it

[MrMarkyMark]

I didn't know that ;/ might have to reconsider then

Well, we cant advise any further without details.