• Visitors can check out the Forum FAQ by clicking this link. You have to register before you can post: click the REGISTER link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. View our Forum Privacy Policy.
  • Want to receive the latest contracting news and advice straight to your inbox? Sign up to the ContractorUK newsletter here. Every sign up will also be entered into a draw to WIN £100 Amazon vouchers!

You are not logged in or you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

  • You are not logged in. If you are already registered, fill in the form below to log in, or follow the "Sign Up" link to register a new account.
  • You may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
  • If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Previously on "When you see same job, paying better, but you've been submitted!"

Collapse

  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by MoztheMan View Post
    "That email saying you agree to be represented solely by one agency isn't legally binding and if the agent does find out someone else submitted you, you could claim it was an honest mistake as the rate was different. It's not completely honest, but agents are hardly honest with us."

    The trouble with that, for the worker, is that the employer would always chose the CV from the agency that submitted them at a lower rate.
    Nope.

    They choose the agency with the latest lowest overall rate.

    This doesn't mean your rate is lower.

    Leave a comment:


  • MoztheMan
    replied
    "That email saying you agree to be represented solely by one agency isn't legally binding and if the agent does find out someone else submitted you, you could claim it was an honest mistake as the rate was different. It's not completely honest, but agents are hardly honest with us."

    The trouble with that, for the worker, is that the employer would always chose the CV from the agency that submitted them at a lower rate.

    Leave a comment:


  • MoztheMan
    replied
    Interesting reading.

    Who knows what is the best way to have proceeded but I went for the 1st agency (lower rate).

    I did this for various reasons:

    a) They were about a week ahead of the 2nd agency. The job I applied for is quite specialist and they wouldn't get lots of applicants, so I'm not sure applying through both agencies would work as their client would very likely have read my CV from No. 1 & thus would have found it odd/off-putting (I think) if s/he got it as well from No. 2 as well.

    b) No. 1 had a more believable rate - I drew attention to No. 1 about the second ad and No. 1 told me how the other rate is unrealistic (which I also thought). No. 2 agency even offered to submit me at even more! than he advertised. I thought that would price me out, particularly as No. 1 agency told me they has submitted another 2 people at about my rate and this also diminished No. 2's credibility.

    c) I don't think it always works that an agency can stretch the difference between what they pay and what the client pays them as wide as they can get away with. So that higher rate may not just be treating you better, as you might think.

    I have had discussions about this with HR people in the public sector (where I generally work) and they have told me that agencies are often paid a fixed percentage on top of what they pay me; one demonstrated this to me by saying, 'so if we're paying the agency £X, Moz, they will be paying you (tap, tap on her calculator) £Y. Is that right, Moz?' It was.

    The relevance of this is I don't think No. 1 was just trying to get a bigger slice of the pie than No 2. They both told me that there was 'no indicative rate' and we're guessing what to submit at and No. 2 would have probably priced me out at his inflated rate.

    -

    Also raised in the discussion was the bigger problem of 'limited submission'.

    I've heard agencies say to me they can only submit 2 or 3, etc. but you can never know if you are either going to be submitted, or just are lured in (so as not to be submitted by anyone else) but then quietly dropped.

    I try and get agencies to confirm they submitted me - but I am usually ignored on this - so I never know if I have been submitted or not. I don't know of anyway to counter this so, instead, I try and chose the agency I trust the most to submit me (which may be a smaller one because they handle less people and so less good candidates).

    If I ever got to talk to the trade body of agencies, I would say they should make it a rule to confirm to candidates that they have been submitted (although I would not expect good compliance with this) or, possibly better, ask a body like the CIPD (HR managers body) to try and introduce rules that all agencies dealing with them must let applicants know they have submitted them - it's in the interest of HR managers to get the best range. But, yeah, some hope, maybe.

    I'd be interested in the views or knowledge of any HR people about such and who have made some interesting replies above.

    Moz
    Last edited by MoztheMan; 15 July 2016, 17:09.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by gables View Post
    Hang on, I don't mean I apply to both agents, then have both agents submit to client, what I mean is this:

    if I see two agents advertising for what appears to be the same role, but obviously I can't say for certain at that point, I'll apply to both agents. The first agent that gets back to ME and discusses the role and furnishes me more information will get the nod to submit to client. If the other agent subsequently gets back to me and it's confirmed it's the same role then they don't get to submit me and I tell them I'm already in for that role. The client only gets my CV once.
    Ah got you. Absolutely. Until you know the name it's open season. Things can go wrong when agents submit you without telling you but as I just mentioned in the post above, if the agents are going to bugger about with misinformation and devious practices very little can go right however hard you try.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
    I should have added in my case the second agency weren't clear with the client's name and also acted very fast.

    So by the time I knew I had been submitted twice I had an interview arranged for the next day.

    With other contracts I check the client's name and any reference codes to avoid that situation.
    Yes, more or less the same problem with me. One advertised a finance client in Cheshire, the other banking client in Manchester. It wasn't until I was sitting in the clients car park for interview I found they were one and the same. We can go on about what you should and shouldn't do until we are blue in the face but if the agents are throwing misinformation like this you can't win.

    Leave a comment:


  • gables
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    I don't want to be rude but that's your plan after all the comment on this thread and others? Sledgehammer it and deal with the fall out later? Sorry but that's the worst option of them all. Maybe you didn't mean it to be as short as that and you would carry out other steps but as you've put it there disregards all the advice and experiences we've all put.
    You'll not come out of it well if you think you can play agents like that.

    As I say apologies if you mean more than just what you put.
    Hang on, I don't mean I apply to both agents, then have both agents submit to client, what I mean is this:

    if I see two agents advertising for what appears to be the same role, but obviously I can't say for certain at that point, I'll apply to both agents. The first agent that gets back to ME and discusses the role and furnishes me more information will get the nod to submit to client. If the other agent subsequently gets back to me and it's confirmed it's the same role then they don't get to submit me and I tell them I'm already in for that role. The client only gets my CV once.

    Leave a comment:


  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    Indeed. There are many twists and turns and each situation should be handled on its own merits. There is no step by step process to follow. You've got to understand the end to end process and what everyone is trying to get out of it and play the system the best way the situation dictates.
    I should have added in my case the second agency weren't clear with the client's name and also acted very fast.

    So by the time I knew I had been submitted twice I had an interview arranged for the next day.

    With other contracts I check the client's name and any reference codes to avoid that situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • TanyaWWW
    replied
    To clarify...

    I think it depends a lot on the market you're in and where you're located - I would never ask two agents to put me forward for the same role if I had a good working relationship with one of them, however in London there's hundreds of agents and thousands of contractors - and harried hiring managers who aren't going to be arsed following up why the same candidate came through the portal twice - hence my suggestion to be twice as visible as the next guy

    In a smaller market or a niche area, obviously you'd need to be more careful

    I've gotten contracts twice where the agents haven't even met me face to face until after I've started the role.

    Leave a comment:


  • LondonManc
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    I can't believe for one minute a client is going to tell a complete stranger wheat rates they are paying the agents. That would set a really poor first impression if someone did that to me TBH. Got to be careful speaking to clients so early on.
    Sorry, to clarify I meant to be clearer; if one isn't on the PSL and they are higher, then they're probably fishing for better candidates to try and get on to the PSL. No point asking then as this is generally the reason from what I've seen (and when I've spoken to agents on nights out when they have a few drinks and discuss stuff they've got up to!)

    If both are on the PSL, it may be that you act dumb and ask the client along the lines of :"just to clarify, are there two different roles because I've seen very different rates advertised?" If there's only £50 in it, then you can negotiate once you've got the gig but if the lower rate is enough to put you off taking the gig in the first place but the higher rate is acceptable then it's more of an issue.

    I've always preferred working with agents who are on a percentage.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by SueEllen View Post
    I was a contractor in such a situation and the first agency never found out simply because all the contractors on site were through the second agency.

    I suppose the second agency now knows but they can do SFA about it.
    Indeed. There are many twists and turns and each situation should be handled on its own merits. There is no step by step process to follow. You've got to understand the end to end process and what everyone is trying to get out of it and play the system the best way the situation dictates.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Originally posted by gables View Post
    I agree, I just said I'd like it not that I did it

    If I see a role advertised by two agents that I think is the same role, I'll submit to both agents, the first that gets back usually gets the nod.
    I don't want to be rude but that's your plan after all the comment on this thread and others? Sledgehammer it and deal with the fall out later? Sorry but that's the worst option of them all. Maybe you didn't mean it to be as short as that and you would carry out other steps but as you've put it there disregards all the advice and experiences we've all put.
    You'll not come out of it well if you think you can play agents like that.

    As I say apologies if you mean more than just what you put.

    Leave a comment:


  • SueEllen
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    You might do but I bet it doesn't work like that in many cases. The fact the OP didn't mention anything to do with fall out from agents when telling them who's got dibs makes me think it's either a tad hypothetical or greedy contractor type agents were involved. I was a contractor in exactly the situation described and agents made such a noise the client decided to leave the whole thing.
    I was a contractor in such a situation and the first agency never found out simply because all the contractors on site were through the second agency.

    I suppose the second agency now knows but they can do SFA about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • gables
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    You might do but I bet it doesn't work like that in many cases. The fact the OP didn't mention anything to do with fall out from agents when telling them who's got dibs makes me think it's either a tad hypothetical or greedy contractor type agents were involved. I was a contractor in exactly the situation described and agents made such a noise the client decided to leave the whole thing.
    I agree, I just said I'd like it not that I did it

    If I see a role advertised by two agents that I think is the same role, I'll submit to both agents, the first that gets back usually gets the nod.

    Leave a comment:


  • VillageContractor
    replied
    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    I can't believe for one minute a client is going to tell a complete stranger wheat rates they are paying the agents. That would set a really poor first impression if someone did that to me TBH. Got to be careful speaking to clients so early on.
    This!

    I have a hard enough job getting the client to tell me what they pay the agent when I am actually working for them.

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    I can't believe for one minute a client is going to tell a complete stranger wheat rates they are paying the agents. That would set a really poor first impression if someone did that to me TBH. Got to be careful speaking to clients so early on.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X