Reply to: Risk Annoying Agent and Client By Delaying Start Due to Contract Review?

[psychocandy]

+ 2 days billing to factor in, i would rather spend those days at home instead of taking a punt at a client, no contract = no work for me every time.

Yep and if you walk on day 3 because things arent going your way you just worked for free for 2 days cos you aint getting paid.

[SlipTheJab]

Me too. If I go on site, then 2 days later agency will not change the contract, I have pretty much zero confidence that I'll be able to go telling tales to the client.

+ 2 days billing to factor in, i would rather spend those days at home instead of taking a punt at a client, no contract = no work for me every time.

[psychocandy]

Yes I can read and can see that you've been banging on about that. As I don't have a big S on my chest and tend to wear my pants under my trousers I'll leave this kind maverick activity to you superhero contractors out there who can turn up on site and be so indispensable to the client within a day that the agent will bend over backwards to accommodate you, speaking as a poor 'normal contractor'... to paraphrase BA Baracus... 'I ain't getting on no site without no contract fool!"

Me too. If I go on site, then 2 days later agency will not change the contract, I have pretty much zero confidence that I'll be able to go telling tales to the client.

[psychocandy]

Sounds to me that it wasn't an agency trick then. That there was a budget cut, if the client had to make a special provision to pay you what you were already on.

So what's your point?

It was agency bulltulip. They were trying to squeeze £25 to go in their back pocket. Nothing to do with the client.

The 'special provision' crap was to save face. They're not exactly going to admit they were trying it on, are they?

[SlipTheJab]

The point he's making is it doesn't matter whether you're at the client or at home, you have equal leverage.

When you're at home you can refuse to come in.

When you're in the office you can threaten to leave.

Makes no difference, provided you've made it clear there are points you haven't agreed to, and if you do walk off site the agent can't stop you can he, so it's just as viable a way of pressurising the agency.

Since we've been debating this, the OP has lost one days billing and there's still no sign of the payment frequency, so I'm not very impressed with the results of this strategy.

If the OP had put as much effort and energy into chasing this up and getting it sorted as we all have debating it on CUK he'd be on site holding a signed contract by now

[BlasterBates]

Yes I can read and can see that you've been banging on about that. As I don't have a big S on my chest and tend to wear my pants under my trousers I'll leave this kind maverick activity to you superhero contractors out there who can turn up on site and be so indispensable to the client within a day that the agent will bend over backwards to accommodate you, speaking as a poor 'normal contractor'... to paraphrase BA Baracus... 'I ain't getting on no site without no contract fool!"

The point he's making is it doesn't matter whether you're at the client or at home, you have equal leverage.

When you're at home you can refuse to come in.

When you're in the office you can threaten to leave.

Makes no difference, provided you've made it clear there are points you haven't agreed to, and if you do walk off site the agent can't stop you can he, so it's just as viable a way of pressurising the agency.

Since we've been debating this, the OP has lost one days billing and there's still no sign of the payment frequency, so I'm not very impressed with the results of this strategy.

[GillsMan]

Yes I can read and can see that you've been banging on about that. As I don't have a big S on my chest and tend to wear my pants under my trousers I'll leave this kind maverick activity to you superhero contractors out there who can turn up on site and be so indispensable to the client within a day that the agent will bend over backwards to accommodate you, speaking as a poor 'normal contractor'... to paraphrase BA Baracus... 'I ain't getting on no site without no contract fool!"

Hahahaha! But seriously, I'm a good contractor, but my work rarely touches a critical part of the business. My work mostly impacts L&D functions, so it's hardly like I'm indespensible. But good communication beforehand, and trying to add value from day one (which happens if you know your stuff) does help strengthen your position.

I guess those contractors who are basically disguised permies who spend day 1 sorting out a laptop and reading the client's policies and documents probably aren't in a position of strength from day 1. But it certainly doesn't take a superhuman effort to put yourself in that position IMO.

[SlipTheJab]

And do you know how you can "rock up on site" without an implied contract in force? Shall I spell it out to you? You communicate to that effect beforehand.

Look, I'm not saying you should do weeks on site fannying about waiting for the contract. But as long as you have a reasonable clue about contracts and know that it's not a total tulip can, you can go on site, while you are waiting for the final few bits and pieces to be sorted out. It's not hard. You just have to communicate effectively. As NLUK said, that's taking quite a leap of logic when referring to some of the posters in this thread, admittedly.

Yes I can read and can see that you've been banging on about that. As I don't have a big S on my chest and tend to wear my pants under my trousers I'll leave this kind maverick activity to you superhero contractors out there who can turn up on site and be so indispensable to the client within a day that the agent will bend over backwards to accommodate you, speaking as a poor 'normal contractor'... to paraphrase BA Baracus... 'I ain't getting on no site without no contract fool!"

[GillsMan]

Same one tried the old "client has had to cut budget by £25 a day" trick. I asked them to get client to email me confirmation of this and then I'd consider my situation. Funnily enough, never heard from client and next day client had made special provision to pay the original rate.

Sounds to me that it wasn't an agency trick then. That there was a budget cut, if the client had to make a special provision to pay you what you were already on.

So what's your point?

[GillsMan]

Exactly that's what a review is for, good luck getting that changed if you had already rocked up on site with the implied contract in force.

And do you know how you can "rock up on site" without an implied contract in force? Shall I spell it out to you? You communicate to that effect beforehand.

Look, I'm not saying you should do weeks on site fannying about waiting for the contract. But as long as you have a reasonable clue about contracts and know that it's not a total tulip can, you can go on site, while you are waiting for the final few bits and pieces to be sorted out. It's not hard. You just have to communicate effectively. As NLUK said, that's taking quite a leap of logic when referring to some of the posters in this thread, admittedly.

[psychocandy]

More bluster form the agent. Of course the answer to that is that you've been contracting for some time and all contracts have these things in place. Payment terms are pretty standard stuff in a B2B contract, so it needs to be there.

The other answer is that you don't give a monkeys if the other 100 contractors don't know how to run their business properly..... that's there problem. It's about as relevant as saying to the agent "well in all the other contracts I've had I was on £100 a day more and on same day payment terms.....".

And tell pimp that you've heard that line about 1000 times.

Last pimp tried that old chestnut and I just laughed and said right oh. They took offence a bit at me laughing.

Same one tried the old "client has had to cut budget by £25 a day" trick. I asked them to get client to email me confirmation of this and then I'd consider my situation. Funnily enough, never heard from client and next day client had made special provision to pay the original rate.

[MrMarkyMark]

There is NO mention of payment frequency apart from what day after the invoice is received will payment arrive but no timescales as to whether it is weekly or monthly.

Can you post this clause, please?
Appreciate your frustration, but I feel you could have been a little more on top of this...

[FrontEnder]

Finally received my contract review late yesterday afternoon and emailed my elusive agency contact with amendments who is back in today. It's mostly ok but the payment term frequency and services to be provided need clarifying There is NO mention of payment frequency apart from what day after the invoice is received will payment arrive but no timescales as to whether it is weekly or monthly. Additionally only a job title is indicated.

The guy at the agency had just phoned and asked me to specify exactly what I need in the contract in writing. He said that they have over 100 contractors and nobody has ever asked for this type of information. Apparently many of their contractors go on site before their contracts have even arrived....He says that they will look at the contract but can they have my reassurance that I can start tomorrow. I said yes of course.

I don't think I'm making unreasonable requests? I would rather iron this out now before forwarding further documentation and turning up this morning asking for changes when it would seem inappropriate during the midst of a handover. However by the same token some of you are probably right and I may have risked the contract and reputation.

More bluster form the agent. Of course the answer to that is that you've been contracting for some time and all contracts have these things in place. Payment terms are pretty standard stuff in a B2B contract, so it needs to be there.

The other answer is that you don't give a monkeys if the other 100 contractors don't know how to run their business properly..... that's there problem. It's about as relevant as saying to the agent "well in all the other contracts I've had I was on £100 a day more and on same day payment terms.....".

[quackhandle]

Lost count of the amount of times when I've received the contract from the pimp then had following convo:

Me: "I'll need to get it reviewed before I sign it."

Pimp: "Why?"

qh

[psychocandy]

Not just that. Only getting a job title and no schedule of work is a massive flag for me. I have to wonder how on earth the OP got this far without getting a schedule of work though. That should have come with the contract and Op should have been on the phone every hour until he got one. No point putting the contract in for review without it.

Sounds like its turning in to a real crock of crap contract this one. Too much going wrong from the off. Hope the OP didn't stop looking.

Yes of course.

But you know what agents are like - once the client tells them they want contractor its in the bag as far as they are concerned and they're counting their commission. I've often found that they are not interested in the slightest in getting the contract done correctly and/or wasting time negotiating it - which is why they like people just turning up.

In this case, it could be this. i.e. agent has knocked together any old crap just to get guy on site. Or as you say, its a turd contract.