Reply to: Balancing Two Clients

[WordIsBond]

I don't think so. I think given the difficulty of winning any IR35 cases, they are less likely to take on the more difficult cases, and a guy with multiple concurrent clients is less likely to have trouble.

[northernladuk]

Would it help if I said I don't remember?

Few people are ever investigated. Those represented by IPSE never lose. "Part and parcel" would not necessarily be easy to prove, even if you've been around a long time, if it is one of multiple clients, and you're doing a lot of work from home. Well-run businesses often establish long-term business relationships with their clients/customers.

And if they really do come out with a new and improved ESI test, it certainly should give points for having multiple concurrent clients, which is a factor which has turned up in case law more than once. Like many other things, it isn't a silver bullet, but it makes it a lot harder for them to prove you are a disguised employee.

But now you are getting in to a general discussion about the effectiveness about IR35 which has nothing specifically to do with the OP's position. You are taking the stance that you might get away with it so pretty much ignore it, others don't. That's a long running argument for other threads. Not this one.

[WordIsBond]

Would it help if I said I don't remember?

Few people are ever investigated. Those represented by IPSE never lose. "Part and parcel" would not necessarily be easy to prove, even if you've been around a long time, if it is one of multiple clients, and you're doing a lot of work from home. Well-run businesses often establish long-term business relationships with their clients/customers.

And if they really do come out with a new and improved ESI test, it certainly should give points for having multiple concurrent clients, which is a factor which has turned up in case law more than once. Like many other things, it isn't a silver bullet, but it makes it a lot harder for them to prove you are a disguised employee.

[northernladuk]

Yeah, if you do this long term IR35 might be an issue, but chances are they'd never investigate you, and their new version of the employment status test, if they ever do it, is likely to give a lot of points for multiple clients. And if you have good contracts and good working practices, you could probably beat IR35 even if you do it a long time. Not only that, you might get yet another part time contract somewhere else, to run concurrently or replace one of these.

Hmm..you been drinking?

[WordIsBond]

Much more achievable if you can work from home at least most of the time. See if client 2 gives you an offer. Then you negotiate with existing client from a position of strength. "I've had an offer, and I think this could be a win for everyone. You need me around, but you could probably get by with 2 days a week, and they could, too. Is this something you'd be willing to work with me on?"

Yeah, if you do this long term IR35 might be an issue, but chances are they'd never investigate you, and their new version of the employment status test, if they ever do it, is likely to give a lot of points for multiple clients. And if you have good contracts and good working practices, you could probably beat IR35 even if you do it a long time. Not only that, you might get yet another part time contract somewhere else, to run concurrently or replace one of these.

[jamesbrown]

Balancing multiple clients on a T&M basis is unwieldy. It can work, but not routinely. If you want to adopt this as a business model, you need to think about structuring the contracts as FFP where you're paid for milestones and deliverables, within a prescribed timeframe, but not for prescribed hours or availability. However, this isn't a superficial change; it's a completely different way of working (and may be difficult to achieve for the average BoS contractor).

[mudskipper]

I have a 'main' client 4 days a week - my contract says 100 days over 6 months - so there is some flexibility.

I have a clientB who gives me anything from 0 - 8 days work a month (38 days work in total last year). Most of the time it works well. Occasionally, when clientB want a lot of stuff, or want several consecutive days, it becomes challenging, but so far has not been a major problem - clientB are aware that they need to give me notice for when they need me.

[northernladuk]

My misuss can take three clients on at a time but it does take a certain level of skill an agility to manage successfully.

[NotAllThere]

I've currently three separate clients. They're all aware that they're not my only customers. In the past years, I've not had any major clashes over demands for my time, but it does sometimes require long days.

[JoJoGabor]

Do not underestimate the stress this can cause. I am coming to the end of doing such a juggling act now. My old client needed some work done which I agreed to do at weekends and in my evenings as I have a full time contract elsewhere. Of course this always bleeds into a "Can we have a quick call at some time in business hours" and the client demanding you come onsite to sort something out, which you have to refuse, so you end up taking your lunchtime out for a call, with two sets of demands.

The extra money is nice, but the effect it has on your personal life and stress isn't generally worth it.

[northernladuk]

IR35 is on a contract by contract basis so if you are talking those timescales you have to change your method of engagement so as not to become part and parcel.

[LondonManc]

In that case, the key thing imo for you to look into is the real situation regarding right of substitution and if you have a contractor that you can trust who can fill in at either client when needed.

[I just need to test it]

Thanks. re-reading my post I see I have omitted a key bit of information with regard to my objectives. Apologies.

My ideal is to work circa 160 days a year. I can survive on less, I can cope with more.

Right now I see a opportunity to establish relationships with two clients who operate a "preferred contractor" list that could (with callbacks) potentially see me across the finishing line in 5-8 years. I just need to gauge my current client's attitude to me working reduced days.

What will happen, of course, is Client1 will snap my hands off, agree a six month contract at 2 days a week, then Client2 tells me to do one.

[northernladuk]

Contracts are short term pieces of work. You have a situation where two contracts 'may' work in parallel. What happens when one of them dries up, evaporates or completes which is guaranteed to happen? You are going to be left working 50% of the time and the chances of you finding another part time one are pretty darn slim. You are going to have to appreciate that as soon as you start down this line either gig ending will probably mean you have to give notice on the other and go back to finding a full time one. I'd ask where is the benefit in running two 50% gigs unless you can guarantee you can get end to end part time gigs. Why not just find another full time one... I say find another as that as it sounds very much like you are part and parcel at the gig you are in now so time to get out. You may not want to because you like it there and are comfortable.. which is being part and parcel...

That is assuming you are not going to be carrying out gig 2 while billing gig 1 or something just as daft. If you are going to do who knows what will happen when it hits the fan. You just have to hope the time spent on the bench after getting walked is less than the bit of money extra you made.

[LondonManc]

Juggling clients isn't easy - you cannot remote to one from the other as the one being remoted from will get peed off about it. If you can do part time with them (e.g. agree Monday/Wed/Fri onsite with offsite support on T&M basis outside of the 3 days) and it's possible to support the original client outside of those 3 days, then you may be able to fit 6 working days into your five day week.