Reply to: Client Dictating Hours of Work

[northernladuk]

My take on this.

Whosoever pays the band calls the tune to a certain extent. If client says its 9-5 then you're going to be pretty much stuck if they insist on this Im afraid.

You know what PC.. You might just be getting this client/supplier relationship thing after all these years....

[psychocandy]

If you bend to your managers instructions you will have to dance the tune for the whole gig.

Which is why I said "to a certain extent". Ultimately, they are the ones paying - directly or otherwise.

[SlipTheJab]

...

Must admit I've found 99% of clients pretty good when it comes to hours. Flexible as long as you're flexible back. At current place, some days I come in at 10am, some days I have to leave at 4pm to sign on but client is ok with it mostly. They have the odd whinge but as I pointed out once, if I can't do this, then I can hardly expect my wife to quit her job, so it'll be a case of no hard feelings, all the best and all that but you've put me in a position where, even if I want to, I can't renew.

...

FTFY

[Bee]

I've found that if you are polite and professional you can get things. If you go in demanding, you can swivel.


"I'm a contractor, I know my rights" - as seen on Jeremy Kyle/Jeremy Vine

I agree unless you find a psychopath.

[WTFH]

I've found that if you are polite and professional you can get things. If you go in demanding, you can swivel.


"I'm a contractor, I know my rights" - as seen on Jeremy Kyle/Jeremy Vine

[PurpleGorilla]

If you bend to your managers instructions you will have to dance the tune for the whole gig.

[psychocandy]

My take on this.

Whosoever pays the band calls the tune to a certain extent. If client says its 9-5 then you're going to be pretty much stuck if they insist on this Im afraid.

I find the best option is to go into every gig assuming its going to be 9-5 unless otherwise told. I find a lot of clients will mention at interview if they're that strict on hours because they dont want this argument happening.

BUT, for the sake of 30 mins it does seem here manager is being a bit OTT. Then again, who knows, maybe the permies have whinged for ages about being able to leave earlier than 5 - if a contractor comes in and does this then its going to cause bad vibes. Never underestimate a permies ability to act like a spoilt little girl when they see a contractor.

Must admit I've found 99% of clients pretty good when it comes to hours. Flexible as long as you're flexible back. At current place, some days I come in at 10am, some days I have to leave at 4pm due to childcare but client is ok with it mostly. They have the odd whinge but as I pointed out once, if I can't do this, then I can hardly expect my wife to quit her job, so it'll be a case of no hard feelings, all the best and all that but you've put me in a position where, even if I want to, I can't renew.

If I ever encounter a gig where the client childishly point blank refuse to allow sensible variations then this will be a non-renew situation for me.

[Bee]

Bad management, she wants you to work 8.30 to 5 because she wants to, without give a reasonable reason. You can ask her why she is so angry only for half an hour

Take your lunch time and arrive half an hour earlier.

[clearedforlanding]

Whoa, hold it there old sport.

1. You need to change your attitude towards your client. Don't treat your Point of contact as a "manager".
2. A quiet word with your point of contact should sort this out.
3. If it doesn't, then either leave or suck it up.
4. What is your war chest like?
5. How "good" is your skillset?
6. How easy is it to find another contract?

etc ....

+1

If you reach an amicable agreement be sure to follow it up with a "Dear X, just a short note to confirm my understanding of our mutual agreement regarding working hours" email with your agent in copy.

[seanraaron]

Yep over the last few contracts I've had core hours have been 10 till 4, ppl are free to come in early or late so long as they are in for those hours, makes sense really.

Same with most perm jobs I've had as well. I can't remember the last time I worked any kind of job where someone was watching the clock on me. I've had the odd colleague make an amusing remark, but I don't work for them so whatever.

Ziggy, you have my sympathies; I hope it's a short-term contract whatever the outcome.

[WordIsBond]

Specific hours leads to inside IR35, no? Would have to be a significant rate increase.

Depends. It's a pointer the wrong way, but it is only one pointer. If other things are ok it probably isn't a problem.

If I agreed a contract that had specific hours, I'd insist on enough extra to buy TLC35 for the next few years.

[northernladuk]

Specific hours leads to inside IR35, no? Would have to be a significant rate increase.

It's a minor flag really. Complying with clients hours could be classed as professional courtesy. If they insist a little too strongly I'd be wondering what else is going on though.

[LondonManc]

I'd consider doing #4. Stick by what they want maybe 3 days a week and work the schedule that is better for you two days a week. Tell her that you want to accommodate them as much as you can, so you'll be staying until 5 more often, usually three days a week, but that you ARE an independent contractor, and the right to dictate specific hours isn't in the contract you agreed. When the contract is up, if they want to renew with different terms you'll be glad to discuss it with them.

This would actually give you a really strong IR35 position, I think. "They wanted me until 5, and I agreed to do that half the time or so in the interests of client relations, but I certainly didn't concede control and I still left before 5 quite frequently." You will not only have not conceded control, you'll have made a point of not doing so. And yet, you've given her enough that she can view it as a win for her.

And then, if they want an extension, and you are so inclined, you can even agree to specific hours if it is important to them -- for a price.

Specific hours leads to inside IR35, no? Would have to be a significant rate increase.

[WordIsBond]

either stick it out for the 6 months and do what she asks, which as northernladuk implied, could open the doors for more control freakish behaviour. Or second option is to just ignore her and work the hours I want to and to my contract terms at the risk of annoying the client, working in an uncomfortable atmosphere and possibly risking termination. Thirdly, nip the whole thing in the bud and hand my notice in (currently a month). Which would you be inclined to do?

I'd consider doing #4. Stick by what they want maybe 3 days a week and work the schedule that is better for you two days a week. Tell her that you want to accommodate them as much as you can, so you'll be staying until 5 more often, usually three days a week, but that you ARE an independent contractor, and the right to dictate specific hours isn't in the contract you agreed. When the contract is up, if they want to renew with different terms you'll be glad to discuss it with them.

This would actually give you a really strong IR35 position, I think. "They wanted me until 5, and I agreed to do that half the time or so in the interests of client relations, but I certainly didn't concede control and I still left before 5 quite frequently." You will not only have not conceded control, you'll have made a point of not doing so. And yet, you've given her enough that she can view it as a win for her.

And then, if they want an extension, and you are so inclined, you can even agree to specific hours if it is important to them -- for a price.

[LondonManc]

If they're telling you what hours you should be working, you're going to end up being well within IR35.

If she's a contractor, then she needs to be made aware of that fact; discuss it in your next 4:30. If you get nowhere with this and you're both through the same agent, contact the agent, advising that IR35 status is being risked by her and you never had working hours agreed.

If all else fails KHITC Oops, we're not in General.