Reply to: Agent rate negotiations after being in place for a while

[SlipTheJab]

It was a mistake mentioning the dividend tax, as they're correct it's not their problem.

Your focus should be on the role\skills - if these have indeed changed and command a higher rate then it is a reasonable request and one head office will have understood, might not have agreed mind :-)

Does this approach work? YES :-) I've just renewed (a new contract) having been here 12 months. Agreed with the client this role was substantially different and requested a rate rise (double my old rate) which was agreed

Jackanory time again?

[OnceStonedRose]

Sounds like you massively under sold yourself for 12 months

I can't believe this has ever happened, I've seen it typed a few times, or variations thereof, but I'm with you here, either ripped off royally for year one or poster and client have gone into the drugs business together.

[oracleslave]

(double my old rate) which was agreed

Sounds like you massively under sold yourself for 12 months

[gables]

Well I did have a reasonable conversation with PM here on site and also senior client manager here. They both understood and were happy for an increase for the reasons stated BUT it had to be ratified by head office.

BUT, head office have basically said "Eh whats that about extra tax? Not our problem no increase no way sorry."

I've decided to stay anyway. Client are pretty good - it doesn't seem professional now for me to walk out on the local guys with two days notice when its out of their control. I know I could and local guys know full well that is the case. Also, I've not got anything else lined up!

Current project runs until end may (which is how long extension for) so I've agreed not to leave them in the lurch for now.

Call it a bit of a loss leader but, I've worked out its costing me about £15/day extra (dividend tax) so seems pretty silly to leave over this. If client had been crap and/or I had something else it would have been different.

I think my client is not going to be the first to react in this way. Think this may well be the standard reaction.

Just hope there are enough people out there who are in a position to tell the agency/client to stuff their short sighted attitude.

Nothing is going to change until it starts to hurt clients directly I fear. Its going to take a while for it to hit home and push rates up.

It was a mistake mentioning the dividend tax, as they're correct it's not their problem.

Your focus should be on the role\skills - if these have indeed changed and command a higher rate then it is a reasonable request and one head office will have understood, might not have agreed mind :-)

Does this approach work? YES :-) I've just renewed (a new contract) having been here 12 months. Agreed with the client this role was substantially different and requested a rate rise (double my old rate) which was agreed

[OnceStonedRose]

No way would I have asked anyone at end client side anything to do with rates and my tax expectations based on government changes, unless I was direct.

If I was to have asked agent and they blew me out I'd have simply got something else if I was pished at tax increases.

As for the role change, unless it was going to give me a little bit of string I could attach to my bow, I'd have just said no thanks.

[mankyspanky]

Well I did have a reasonable conversation with PM here on site and also senior client manager here. They both understood and were happy for an increase for the reasons stated BUT it had to be ratified by head office.

BUT, head office have basically said "Eh whats that about extra tax? Not our problem no increase no way sorry."

I've decided to stay anyway. Client are pretty good - it doesn't seem professional now for me to walk out on the local guys with two days notice when its out of their control. I know I could and local guys know full well that is the case. Also, I've not got anything else lined up!

Current project runs until end may (which is how long extension for) so I've agreed not to leave them in the lurch for now.

Call it a bit of a loss leader but, I've worked out its costing me about £15/day extra (dividend tax) so seems pretty silly to leave over this. If client had been crap and/or I had something else it would have been different.

I think my client is not going to be the first to react in this way. Think this may well be the standard reaction.

Just hope there are enough people out there who are in a position to tell the agency/client to stuff their short sighted attitude.

Nothing is going to change until it starts to hurt clients directly I fear. Its going to take a while for it to hit home and push rates up.

[northernladuk]

Agent's probably already got someone lined up prepared to work for less than you, and will be telling client how much better than you he is

I'd put money on that.

[pr1]

Jeez. The agent has got some bottle. Came back with Sorry no increase. So I asked who they'd spoken to at client about this. PM local here certainly hasn't mentioned it to me. Pretty sure the no has come from someone higher up - although I am wondering if agent has even mentioned it to client or just thought stuff it we're not rocking the boat we'll tell him no.

They decided to ignore this email and instead tell me they've informed the client that I've declined and will be leaving in two weeks. Definitely trying it on here.

So my options now are to have a word with the local PM - who I expect will be mortifed that there is a risk its not all sorted. Or wait until news that I'm leaving filters down to him?

Agent's probably already got someone lined up prepared to work for less than you, and will be telling client how much better than you he is

[TheFaQQer]

Jeez. The agent has got some bottle. Came back with Sorry no increase. So I asked who they'd spoken to at client about this. PM local here certainly hasn't mentioned it to me. Pretty sure the no has come from someone higher up - although I am wondering if agent has even mentioned it to client or just thought stuff it we're not rocking the boat we'll tell him no.

They decided to ignore this email and instead tell me they've informed the client that I've declined and will be leaving in two weeks. Definitely trying it on here.

So my options now are to have a word with the local PM - who I expect will be mortifed that there is a risk its not all sorted. Or wait until news that I'm leaving filters down to him?

OK, so now you discuss it with whoever is the best person at the client to have the conversation with. Explain that you want an increase but the agency won't pay up, so you're leaving in two weeks at the end of the current contract. Ask who you should handover to, and plan accordingly.

Then either hope that the client tells the agency to cut their rate and they keep you with the increase, or walk away into a higher paying contract with no downtime. Or back down and accept that you aren't getting any increase.

Bear in mind that walking away might be the equivalent of radical nasal removal when extensive facial plastic surgery is required instead.

[Willapp]

Jeez. The agent has got some bottle. Came back with Sorry no increase. So I asked who they'd spoken to at client about this. PM local here certainly hasn't mentioned it to me. Pretty sure the no has come from someone higher up - although I am wondering if agent has even mentioned it to client or just thought stuff it we're not rocking the boat we'll tell him no.

They decided to ignore this email and instead tell me they've informed the client that I've declined and will be leaving in two weeks. Definitely trying it on here.

So my options now are to have a word with the local PM - who I expect will be mortifed that there is a risk its not all sorted. Or wait until news that I'm leaving filters down to him?

I would definitely be speaking to your client contact about this, I mean who knows what BS the agent is going to feed them about your reasons for leaving? Regardless of how the client feels about getting involved in rate discussions, I'd want it made perfectly clear that you are keen to stay but that you are having a disagreement with the agency about their contract. You don't have to go into details that it's about rate if you prefer not to (depends what your relationship with the PM is like) but knowing agents they will feed the client whatever they want to make sure they don't look bad which means they'll spew something about you being difficult or whatever.

However, as others have said, when it comes to rate increases you really have to be prepared to walk in order to get something out of this otherwise the agent will just call your bluff.

[LondonManc]

The OP knows how much the client is paying - it's in the first post.

I know - but does the client know how much the agency is making?

There was a thread on here about a month ago about the contractor and client both being stitched up by the agency and the client then simply laying the law down and telling the agency what the day rate would be and what the contractor would get.

[LondonManc]

Unless you've got the client over a barrel (i.e. regulatory project, you're absolutely essential, etc.) then 98% of the time you will not get your rate rise. You've probably also blown any chance of agency-funded food and drinks, which would have been a better place to remind them how much you've brought in for them this year.

[northernladuk]

Jeez. The agent has got some bottle. Came back with Sorry no increase. So I asked who they'd spoken to at client about this. PM local here certainly hasn't mentioned it to me. Pretty sure the no has come from someone higher up - although I am wondering if agent has even mentioned it to client or just thought stuff it we're not rocking the boat we'll tell him no.

They decided to ignore this email and instead tell me they've informed the client that I've declined and will be leaving in two weeks. Definitely trying it on here.

So my options now are to have a word with the local PM - who I expect will be mortifed that there is a risk its not all sorted. Or wait until news that I'm leaving filters down to him?

I think it's been said a number of times on this thread but you are after 5% of the agents cut, not the client upping their rate. The agent most likely knows the client is on a rate card and will not increase. Remember, if the client rate goes up so does the agents cut so there is money in it for him. There must be a very good reason an agent turns down more money i.e. it's not going to wash...

He won't have mentioned it to the client at all. It's between you and him. Getting the client involved can only cause problems. The PM will be mortified but that is because he's having to get involved in a rate argument of 5% to an already overpaid contractor and the fact he has better things to do.

There is playing hardball and there is pissing your client off royally... all for 5%? Your call.

[mankyspanky]

Jeez. The agent has got some bottle. Came back with Sorry no increase. So I asked who they'd spoken to at client about this. PM local here certainly hasn't mentioned it to me. Pretty sure the no has come from someone higher up - although I am wondering if agent has even mentioned it to client or just thought stuff it we're not rocking the boat we'll tell him no.

They decided to ignore this email and instead tell me they've informed the client that I've declined and will be leaving in two weeks. Definitely trying it on here.

So my options now are to have a word with the local PM - who I expect will be mortifed that there is a risk its not all sorted. Or wait until news that I'm leaving filters down to him?

[TheFaQQer]

It may come out that the client is paying far more for the contractor than the contractor is getting. That's fine for the first 6-12 months but after that the contractor is earning the extensions, not the agent.

The OP knows how much the client is paying - it's in the first post.