Reply to: Notice Periods

[LondonManc]

There is nothing unlawful about unequal notice periods directly. It is uncommon though. However, there is a risk (possibly significant depending upon the circumstances) of it being held to be an unlawful restraint.

Yes, I was having a pint with someone last month who said something along the lines of, "well, six months notice on either side seemed a great idea at the time".

[ASB]

Notice periods in employment contracts are the same and there is a law covering it.

There is nothing unlawful about unequal notice periods directly. It is uncommon though. However, there is a risk (possibly significant depending upon the circumstances) of it being held to be an unlawful restraint.

[ASB]

I know it's off topic for these forums but is the same true for permanent positions ? Is there any decided case law regarding eg an employer giving notice to an employee after the emloyee gives notice ? Just curious...

Boo

Provided it is within the terms of the contract then it is not an issue.

The issue in practice is likely to be the contract terms, these generally preclude "because we feel like it" (even if they did include that it would be very difficult to get that past a tribunal).

In my case for example I have to give 6 months notice. I can get instant under certain circumstances or 30 days under most other (with cause and disciplinary gone through of course as required by uk employment law).

So, I give 6 month if they turned round and invent a sacking reason then it would be unfair dismissal due to not going through process; equally if they tried the redundancy route it would be be contrary to the agree redundancy process etc. But if I did something major bad they could still go instant termination.

Basically the point is moot because it is a very different sort of contract.

[NotAllThere]

...
What I also do not understand is why the moderators put up with it as it must send a lot of potential advert-clickers away in disgust.

Boo

I have no commercial interest in the site and make no money out of moderation. I do it in order to indulge my megalomania out of the goodness of my heart. Funnily enough, repeated FAQs also drive people away from sites. There is a welcome/faq area. I could have moved it there I suppose. but I didn't think we were being particularly unfriendly to someone who presumably is a professional.

I know it's off topic for these forums but is the same true for permanent positions ? Is there any decided case law regarding eg an employer giving notice to an employee after the emloyee gives notice ? Just curious...

Boo

The reality of UK employment law is that an employee cannot be obliged to work. If an employee says "I'm off now", about all the employer can do legally is prevent the employee immediately working for a competitor, and usually only for one payment period (usually a month). If they don't pay the employee, then the employee cannot be prevented from working for a competitor - and the employer may even be in breach of contract. Notice periods only really work for the benefit of employees. Employers rely on ignorance. It's very hard to get rid of employees and it's very easy to ditch an employer.

[psychocandy]

+1.

The presence of people on this forum whose sole purpose seems to be to carp and snipe at those who post genuine questions is beyond comprehension.

What I also do not understand is why the moderators put up with it as it must send a lot of potential advert-clickers away in disgust.

Boo

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...08194040,d.ZWU

[northernladuk]

To the OP yes there's a lot of silly hostility from NLUK, he periodically winds his neck back in, but the question you asked has been posed a fair few times..

Which..erm.. might be true but I don't see any in this thread. Some short sharp responses to the point but no hostility... I blame NAT.

[SueEllen]

I know it's off topic for these forums but is the same true for permanent positions ? Is there any decided case law regarding eg an employer giving notice to an employee after the emloyee gives notice ? Just curious...

Boo

There is loads of case law on unfair dismissal. Employment contracts are also covered under loads of acts of parliament as well.

The aim is to make the positions of power between the employee and employer as equal as possible.

So if one party gives notice the other party has to respect that and cannot give counter notice. If the employer then wants the employee to leave early they have to pay them. If the employee wants to leave early and the employer doesn't agree the employee has to work out their notice.

Notice periods in employment contracts are the same and there is a law covering it, simply to stop bad employers terminating people on the spot for no reason. This is why notice periods in employment contracts are equal and having different notice periods distinguishes us from employees.

[TykeMerc]

It's generally more balanced in permie land isn't it?
Either with matching notice periods or some clause where 'gardening leave' is invoked. I think the unfair dismissal tribunal would be more hassle and cost than just buying out the notice period.

I think that's generally true these days. In fact to many employers just the implication that it will be taken to a tribunal will make them cave as it's just a lot of work and possible cost, cheaper to just pay the notice or whatever it takes.

To the OP yes there's a lot of silly hostility from NLUK, he periodically winds his neck back in, but the question you asked has been posed a fair few times.
As contractors notice periods in our contracts can be utterly useless. The clients have the whip hand and can effectively bin you with no notice by saying there's no work or trumping up some misconduct accusation, trying to force them to pay notice is expensive, hard work and frankly not worth the effort.
There is nothing to stop a client giving notice in response to you doing so unless the contract specifically precludes it, that assumes they don't instantly bin you.

[northernladuk]

I know it's off topic for these forums but is the same true for permanent positions ? Is there any decided case law regarding eg an employer giving notice to an employee after the emloyee gives notice ? Just curious...

Boo

Interesting question. I wasn't aware perm contracts had unequal terms but can't see what is stopping them. I wouldn't have thought HRbwould want to touch games like this. It's more than likely they'll get taken to tribunal and lose so for the cost is expect they'd honour the longer clause.

[LondonManc]

I know it's off topic for these forums but is the same true for permanent positions ? Is there any decided case law regarding eg an employer giving notice to an employee after the emloyee gives notice ? Just curious...

Boo

I've never know anything but equal length notice periods when I was a perm. The perm employer could use a compromise agreement to get rid of you sooner if they want to but there are that many processes around giving you notice that they'd have to go through with HR that it's probably not worth their while countering your notice. If you resign, it leaves you with no rights compared to redunancy compensation, especially if you've been somewhere a while.

+1.

The presence of people on this forum whose sole purpose seems to be to carp and snipe at those who post genuine questions is beyond comprehension.

What I also do not understand is why the moderators put up with it as it must send a lot of potential advert-clickers away in disgust.

Boo

With respect, the concept of contractor notice periods has cropped up, on average, about three times a fortnight. It's not difficult to search for notice period threads in the search tool. NLUK is generally grumpy to seasoned posters and n00bs alike and on the subject of contract notice period, it's simple and generally a cut and paste:
1/ Check your contract
2/ You can be dismissed instantly for trivial reasons - if they want you out, man up and move on because you're gone in their mind
3/ You can be advised that unfortunately the project has been pulled and we have no more work for you and have your timesheets signed off from anything from 0 days to your full notice period depending upon the client. Anything more than a week and you can count yourself lucky, whatever your contract says. They are under no obligation to provide you with work but that assumes they don't want the project doing that they originally engaged you for.

[Bluespider]

What I also do not understand is why the moderators put up with it as it must send a lot of potential advert-clickers away in disgust.

Boo

Whilst it may be heavy on sarcasm and back biting, I don't think this site is particularly heavy on Advertising.

There is always complaints about new posters not reading the first timers sections or how to search the site properly but there is never any focus on making these things more prominent or intuitive.

[Bluespider]

It's generally more balanced in permie land isn't it?
Either with matching notice periods or some clause where 'gardening leave' is invoked. I think the unfair dismissal tribunal would be more hassle and cost than just buying out the notice period.

[Boo]

Well that reminds me why I do not frequent this board at all

+1.

The presence of people on this forum whose sole purpose seems to be to carp and snipe at those who post genuine questions is beyond comprehension.

What I also do not understand is why the moderators put up with it as it must send a lot of potential advert-clickers away in disgust.

Boo

[Boo]

Quick answer. Yes.

I know it's off topic for these forums but is the same true for permanent positions ? Is there any decided case law regarding eg an employer giving notice to an employee after the emloyee gives notice ? Just curious...

Boo

[northernladuk]

Well that reminds me why I do not frequent this board at all

Not sure why. It's not unreasonable to guess that notice periods have been discussed to death on here as every contract has one so the information will already exist somewhere. It's also not unreasonable to expect that you won't get a full blown answer to something that is discussed a lot. It's free information so it's not going to be as good as you'd get from your accountant et al.

You've had some direct feedback on your question plus a little snippet of info about the usefulness of notice periods so you've got more than you asked for.

Why should that be a reason not to frequent the board?