Reply to: Sorry if any repetition: But please help a newbie :(

[malvolio]

Don't know what you are on about and also don't know where you get your calculations from but they are way off.. the current FTC offer is already over 85K pa.. You need new sources i believe...

If that is the case, then the day rate equivalent should be somewhere around £650 a day. You can't have it both ways...

[Cirrus]

Perm vs Contract

An oft-used rule of thumb is take your hourly rate and multiply by a thousand. Thus £400 per day maps to £55k or so.

I have seen companies give the option of contract or FTC but never seen anything like £400 translating to £85k.

As others have said, this looks a bit fishy.

[Daniel2105]

When contractors calculate their rate vs a normal permie salary NOT a fixed term contract (FTC), we calculate the costs to the employer of training, holidays, sick pay, employers NI, pension contributions etc. Some people have some figure of day rate X100. Though knowing how some employers try to and manage to scrimp on things it's not true in all cases.

Also with any contract of employment which includes your FTC, you have a right to give notice. Some contracts we have, which are business to business contracts, the terms of business mean you cannot give notice.

Your FTC is different as you are getting the benefits of being a highly paid permanent employee but after 6 months you can leave. Though you may have to politely turn down an offer of permanent employment - by law if in the 3 months* when you finish the contract they have to offer you any permanent job that arises that fits your skill set.

As stated before take the FTC, do it and if you don't like it hand in your notice.

*Can't remember the exact timescale but it's around 3 months.

Thank you for that information, learned something again

[BolshieBastard]

FTCs are entitled to (at least some) employee rights

https://www.gov.uk/fixed-term-contra...dterm-contract

If a contract isn’t renewed
This is considered to be a dismissal, and if the employee has 2 years’ service the employer needs to show that there’s a ‘fair’ reason for not renewing the contract (eg, if they were planning to stop doing the work the contract was for).

Workers have the right:

• not to be unfairly dismissed after 2 years’ service - for employees who were in employment before 6 April 2012, it’s 1 year’s service
• to a written statement of reasons for not renewing the contract - after 1 year’s service

They may be entitled to statutory redundancy payments after 2 years’ service if the reason for non-renewal is redundancy.

Ergo, why you will hardly if ever find an FTC scheduled for 2 or more years.

[mudskipper]

FTCs are entitled to (at least some) employee rights

https://www.gov.uk/fixed-term-contra...dterm-contract

If a contract isn’t renewed
This is considered to be a dismissal, and if the employee has 2 years’ service the employer needs to show that there’s a ‘fair’ reason for not renewing the contract (eg, if they were planning to stop doing the work the contract was for).

Workers have the right:

• not to be unfairly dismissed after 2 years’ service - for employees who were in employment before 6 April 2012, it’s 1 year’s service
• to a written statement of reasons for not renewing the contract - after 1 year’s service

They may be entitled to statutory redundancy payments after 2 years’ service if the reason for non-renewal is redundancy.

[SueEllen]

Don't know what you are on about and also don't know where you get your calculations from but they are way off.. the current FTC offer is already over 85K pa.. You need new sources i believe...

When contractors calculate their rate vs a normal permie salary NOT a fixed term contract (FTC), we calculate the costs to the employer of training, holidays, sick pay, employers NI, pension contributions etc. Some people have some figure of day rate X100. Though knowing how some employers try to and manage to scrimp on things it's not true in all cases.

Also with any contract of employment which includes your FTC, you have a right to give notice. Some contracts we have, which are business to business contracts, the terms of business mean you cannot give notice.

Your FTC is different as you are getting the benefits of being a highly paid permanent employee but after 6 months you can leave. Though you may have to politely turn down an offer of permanent employment - by law if in the 3 months* when you finish the contract they have to offer you any permanent job that arises that fits your skill set.

As stated before take the FTC, do it and if you don't like it hand in your notice.

*Can't remember the exact timescale but it's around 3 months.

[Daniel2105]

Most likely the client is looking at total cost of employment of £400 a day or thereabouts. That would give an FTC salary in the order of around £50k pa.

And the main difference between FTC and a real permie job is you know when you will be sacked, you don't get redundancy and once the job ends you can't go back.

HTH

Don't know what you are on about and also don't know where you get your calculations from but they are way off.. the current FTC offer is already over 85K pa.. You need new sources i believe...

[SueEllen]

Where as that might be technically true I think he means the people on FTCs in perm organisations feel like they get sacked as they don't understand the general concept of contracts coming to an end. I've seen people of FTCs in tears when they are told it won't be converting to a full time position. Awful things they are.

On the other hand I've seen some people celebrate as now it means they don't have to resign or make up a reason why they can't go permie in that company.......

[jmo21]

Where as that might be technically true I think he means the people on FTCs in perm organisations feel like they get sacked as they don't understand the general concept of contracts coming to an end. I've seen people of FTCs in tears when they are told it won't be converting to a full time position. Awful things they are.

That's often the carrot that's dangled, and why FTC's are so far from normal IT contracts.

Most people taking a FTC WANT a permie job and aren't taking a FTC out of choice, rather that they can't get a FT permie job.

[northernladuk]

Its not a question of being happy as you put it. Its a question of being accurate.

And if you still think that the natural ending of a contract never mind an FTC 'sounds an awful lot like being sacked' to you, perhaps you need to re-evaluate dishing out advice to other people here?

Where as that might be technically true I think he means the people on FTCs in perm organisations feel like they get sacked as they don't understand the general concept of contracts coming to an end. I've seen people of FTCs in tears when they are told it won't be converting to a full time position. Awful things they are.

[BolshieBastard]

Well if it makes you happy...

And I don't know about you, but the contractors I know are not on anyone's payroll, nor do they get pensions, holiday pay, sick pay. "Leave now, don't come back, don't claim any further payments, redundancy or employment rights". Sounds an awful lot like being sacked to me. YMMV...

Its not a question of being happy as you put it. Its a question of being accurate.

And if you still think that the natural ending of a contract never mind an FTC 'sounds an awful lot like being sacked' to you, perhaps you need to re-evaluate dishing out advice to other people here?

[stek]

Well if it makes you happy...

And I don't know about you, but the contractors I know are not on anyone's payroll, nor do they get pensions, holiday pay, sick pay. "Leave now, don't come back, don't claim any further payments, redundancy or employment rights". Sounds an awful lot like being sacked to me. YMMV...

Yes they are.

[malvolio]

Some absolute tosh in there. As usual.

You dont get sacked at the end of an FTC. It just ends. In fact, that bit is more similar to the contracts we work under.

When it ends, it ends. If some people want to think they're 'sacked' when a contract or FTC comes to a natural end, that's up to them I suppose.

Well if it makes you happy...

And I don't know about you, but the contractors I know are not on anyone's payroll, nor do they get pensions, holiday pay, sick pay. "Leave now, don't come back, don't claim any further payments, redundancy or employment rights". Sounds an awful lot like being sacked to me. YMMV...

[BolshieBastard]

Most likely the client is looking at total cost of employment of £400 a day or thereabouts. That would give an FTC salary in the order of around £50k pa.

And the main difference between FTC and a real permie job is you know when you will be sacked, you don't get redundancy and once the job ends you can't go back.

HTH

Some absolute tosh in there. As usual.

You dont get sacked at the end of an FTC. It just ends. In fact, that bit is more similar to the contracts we work under.

When it ends, it ends. If some people want to think they're 'sacked' when a contract or FTC comes to a natural end, that's up to them I suppose.

[malvolio]

Most likely the client is looking at total cost of employment of £400 a day or thereabouts. That would give an FTC salary in the order of around £50k pa.

And the main difference between FTC and a real permie job is you know when you will be sacked, you don't get redundancy and once the job ends you can't go back.

HTH