Reply to: No notice period pay during holiday

[SpontaneousOrder]

would you expect them to pay you for bank holidays during a notice period that didn't coincide with you going on holiday?

[Snarf]

You wouldn't have been paid for the two weeks holiday anyway?
If they are going to pay you for the two weeks following your holiday but don't want you in... Bonus, call the travel agent and get another week booked.

Don't try to get money from the client for time that you won't (and wouldn't) have been in the office working.. Theyll never have you back.

[eek]

Thanks all for your helpful advice.



It turns out that there is no right to substitution clause and the contract falls within IR35. Does this fact change how holiday pay is treated or is a IR35 contractor still just a contractor with increased tax and NI liability and still without paid leave?



This is a similar situation. The client, a big city hedge fund has a lot at stake if word got out that they treat contractors poorly.

Nope just because you are inside IR35 doesn't give you employment rights.

The important question is whether there is any mutuality of obligation between you and your end client see IR35: Mutuality of Obligation: what it is and what it is not :: Contractor UK for the details...

I'm guessing if you are under IR35 there probably isn't so then its a matter my contract says 4 weeks notice. Please pay up and no I won't drop it as you wrecked my holiday...

[northernladuk]

It turns out that there is no right to substitution clause and the contract falls within IR35.

You've only just found this out now or have you been declaring yourself inside for the whole gig?

Does this fact change how holiday pay is treated or is a IR35 contractor still just a contractor with increased tax and NI liability and still without paid leave?
.

Yep.

You could of course attempt to claim you are employee and take the client to court for your new employee rights. You'll get your holiday pay but be hated by every contractor alive (that have a clue what they are doing).

[axon]

Thanks all for your helpful advice.

Point out you have a right of substitution clause and would have put in a sub if needed.

It turns out that there is no right to substitution clause and the contract falls within IR35. Does this fact change how holiday pay is treated or is a IR35 contractor still just a contractor with increased tax and NI liability and still without paid leave?

In 17 years contracting, Ive only ever known one client pay 4 weeks in lieu of notice. That was on a NETA Project for a utilities client when they ruthlessly canned a number of contractors, including the senior programme manager.

This is a similar situation. The client, a big city hedge fund has a lot at stake if word got out that they treat contractors poorly.

[BolshieBastard]

Actually it isn't that simple.

Some clients will pay your notice period as a penalty clause if they cancel the contract.

Remember not every contract has the same wording.

In 17 years contracting, Ive only ever known one client pay 4 weeks in lieu of notice. That was on a NETA Project for a utilities client when they ruthlessly canned a number of contractors, including the senior programme manager.

[SueEllen]

But this won't work. The idea of offering a substitute is someone that can do what you were doing and provide a seamless handover. You can't do this when you are aware. It will require you to spend your own time and effort getting this person up to speed and onsite to fill your boots. Using the substitution clause does not mean you can just offer some random new bod up. Well it can but it won't wash.

Again it depends.

I know contractors who have substituted with contractors who use to work for the client when they went on holiday.

The hand over for one was just telling the other guy what he was doing.

[SimonMac]

Contract was cancelled early with a one month notice period and I was informed of this on the first day of a 2 week holiday. The cheeky client wants to reduce the notice period to 2 weeks since I was technically not able to work during the holiday even though I was told not to come back in after returning from the holiday. Do I have the right to claim the full one month's notice?

No you don't, you won't get paid for the two weeks you weren't there, want holiday pay go permie

[northernladuk]

Yes.

Point out you have a right of substitution clause and would have put in a sub if needed.

But this won't work. The idea of offering a substitute is someone that can do what you were doing and provide a seamless handover. You can't do this when you are aware. It will require you to spend your own time and effort getting this person up to speed and onsite to fill your boots. Using the substitution clause does not mean you can just offer some random new bod up. Well it can but it won't wash.

[northernladuk]

I'd say you're talking as much from bad experience as anything.

Not this type of experience. Been canned twice and in both cases they attempted to plan it a month in advance. Same outfit twice as it happens and had a good relationship with them. They trusted I wasn't about to bail just because I had been given notice. The second time work started trailing off so asked if I could leave early if I found a gig and they agreed. Ended up leaving a week early (and not getting paid for it of course).

They were as decent as they could be with me and vice versa. If they had said two weeks and we are out of cash I'd have been a tad narked but not enough to go round hating the client and posting it all over the forums though. I'd like to think I could spot a struggling project and have contingencies in place and be in a position to know when an exit is looming.

I'll bet the signs are there in a large number of these instant termination situations and people just don't see them.

[LondonManc]

But this is very uncommon. What is more likely is that a client doesn't know how we work so just pays the notice like the rest if the employees. If it's in the contract no pay without a signed time sheet for work done it's black and white yet they still pay for work not done. That's a client mess up not adhering to contract.

I'd say you're talking as much from bad experience as anything.

I've had a contract cut short twice. One was finish the piece of work you're on, get your timesheet, etc. sorted and get off site and the other was four weeks notice to be worked, for which I timesheeted, invoiced and was paid.

While they don't have to give you work, similarly they may not want a reputation as a clientco who will ditch contractors at a moment's notice.

[northernladuk]

Actually it isn't that simple.

Some clients will pay your notice period as a penalty clause if they cancel the contract.

Remember not every contract has the same wording.

But this is very uncommon. What is more likely is that a client doesn't know how we work so just pays the notice like the rest if the employees. If it's in the contract no pay without a signed time sheet for work done it's black and white yet they still pay for work not done. That's a client mess up not adhering to contract.

[TheFaQQer]

Actually it isn't that simple.

Some clients will pay your notice period as a penalty clause if they cancel the contract.

Remember not every contract has the same wording.

Given that this one wants to cut the notice period, I suspect that they aren't going to have something in there that means they have to pay to do that.

But you're right - it could be more complex.

[SueEllen]

You get the one month's notice. You are told not to come in, and don't send anyone else in in your place. You invoice for the work that your company did during that time.

Simple.

Actually it isn't that simple.

Some clients will pay your notice period as a penalty clause if they cancel the contract.

Remember not every contract has the same wording.

[eek]

You get the one month's notice. You are told not to come in, and don't send anyone else in in your place. You invoice for the work that your company did during that time.

Simple.

Yep the we have work to do trumps the substitution argument.

My advice, enjoy your holiday and come back refreshed in early September to find a new contract.