Reply to: Taking time out from contract

[Underbase]

Hi OP, taking 3 weeks out to spend with another client doesn't seem to be compatible with the clause in your existing contract in which you agree to be on the client site 37.5 hours a week.

On the other hand, 2 or 3 weeks is the sort of time people take out for their summer holidays. You could therefore take a 2 week "holiday" break from client 1 and spend it working with client 2. But client 1 would treat it as your holiday time, and you could not then reasonably take much additional time for an actual holiday.

How much "leave of absence" clients find it acceptable for contractors to take is an interesting question. Clients might be happy for contractors to take longer holidays than permies, because it saves them money. For this reason, my current client mandates all contractors take 2 weeks off over Christmas/New Year.

I would say take a few days off client 1 to work with client 2 ("leave of absence"). Any more than that, talk to your client about it, but don't mention that stuff about not being busy. Don't forward that as a reason.

It is interesting as from the Permi side managing contractors I actually had a limit by the Bank policy to have a maximum number of days per year a contractor could work, otherwise it was considered "more than 1 contractor". It was mostly due to the way a contractor was budgeted for.

[unixman]

Hi OP, taking 3 weeks out to spend with another client doesn't seem to be compatible with the clause in your existing contract in which you agree to be on the client site 37.5 hours a week.

On the other hand, 2 or 3 weeks is the sort of time people take out for their summer holidays. You could therefore take a 2 week "holiday" break from client 1 and spend it working with client 2. But client 1 would treat it as your holiday time, and you could not then reasonably take much additional time for an actual holiday.

How much "leave of absence" clients find it acceptable for contractors to take is an interesting question. Clients might be happy for contractors to take longer holidays than permies, because it saves them money. For this reason, my current client mandates all contractors take 2 weeks off over Christmas/New Year.

I would say take a few days off client 1 to work with client 2 ("leave of absence"). Any more than that, talk to your client about it, but don't mention that stuff about not being busy. Don't forward that as a reason.

[WordIsBond]

I am definitely professional and looking to do the right and best thing professionally.

That was what I thought when I read your initial post.

FWIW, I'm responding more from my experience in management than as a consultant. I'd have wanted someone in your position to come talk to me. If I needed him to be full-time, I'd have said so and expected him to stick with that. If I didn't need full-time, I'd have been very happy with this as long as the work was getting done.

If I had to pay a contractor to be there all the time so he could be there the 80% of the time I needed him to get the job done, I'd do it. But if he could have found a way to take himself off my books for that other 20% of the time, good for him and for me -- as long as he got the work done that I needed. And some might not be flexible, but I would have been as flexible as I could to work with someone in that situation.

Unless this is already addressed (one way or other) in your contract, or unless there are other dynamics involved, it is often best to talk to your client. "I've had this offer, but my contract is with you, is this compatible with your needs or should I give it a miss?" That's what I would have wanted to here. I wouldn't have wanted a guy to just not be turning up and not knowing what his schedule / availability was, or if he would be there when I wanted him. I'd have wanted open and respectful communication.

[cityben]

Are you a professional, or are you just trying to take advantage of someone? If you are a professional, you'll make sure you don't jeopardise your ability to deliver what you've contracted to do.

Are you running a business, or are you just a disguised employee? If you are a disguised employee, this isn't on. If you are running a business, you'll be looking for other business opportunities, and take advantage of them as you are able. What is meant by "as you are able" depends on how professional you are, and what your client's needs are.

If you can take advantage of this other opportunity, and still be a professional with your existing client, fill your boots. If you can't, you have to let it go.

There's no way anyone on the Internet can answer the question for you. And you may not be able to answer it without talking honestly and directly to your client. But those are the questions you have to answer. If you don't have a B2B relationship and your client sees you as basically an employee, and you are willing to work within that parameter, you don't do this. Even if that isn't the case, if this will keep you from providing the professional service you've contracted for, you don't do this. Otherwise, if you want the extra work and money, go for it.

I am definitely professional and looking to do the right and best thing professionally.

I appreciate nobody is or can give me the answer and it's something I need to come to by myself, I was just canvassing for some of you guys who are more experienced and everyone's advice and opinion is appreciated, so thank you.

[WordIsBond]

Are you a professional, or are you just trying to take advantage of someone? If you are a professional, you'll make sure you don't jeopardise your ability to deliver what you've contracted to do.

Are you running a business, or are you just a disguised employee? If you are a disguised employee, this isn't on. If you are running a business, you'll be looking for other business opportunities, and take advantage of them as you are able. What is meant by "as you are able" depends on how professional you are, and what your client's needs are.

If you can take advantage of this other opportunity, and still be a professional with your existing client, fill your boots. If you can't, you have to let it go.

There's no way anyone on the Internet can answer the question for you. And you may not be able to answer it without talking honestly and directly to your client. But those are the questions you have to answer. If you don't have a B2B relationship and your client sees you as basically an employee, and you are willing to work within that parameter, you don't do this. Even if that isn't the case, if this will keep you from providing the professional service you've contracted for, you don't do this. Otherwise, if you want the extra work and money, go for it.

[cityben]

Can I just check here, you've got a contract which is 5 days a week but you are talking to another client about another contract that would mean you working a 4 day week?


If I was the client you are currently contracted to, I'd be considering whether I wanted to keep you on!


You have the "right" to go after as much work as you want, as long as you can fulfil the duties expected of you by the contract you are currently in, within the times defined by the contract and expected by the client.
So, if that client's normal office hours are 9-5 M-F, then for you to say 'I'll work from 4pm to 10pm on Tuesdays and I'll do three hours on a Saturday' means that you are not available during their normal office hours.


What is your current relationship like with the client you are contracted to?


You would need to have agreement from them and your agent if you're going to start working elsewhere, and while it might get you extra cash now and make HMRC look on you more positively, it probably isn't a good long-term plan, in my opinion.

No, sorry maybe I didn't explain well. I meant to go in to the other other client 1 day a week or 1 day every 2 weeks. I wouldn't be doing all of this at once anyway. If I get a big project, I'd focus on that. Then back to contract gig

[northernladuk]

"I won't be in for the next few days - to allow the rest of the team to catch up. You have my number if needed."

Indeed but...

I anticipate it being around 2, maybe 3 weeks

[WTFH]

I'm also talking to another client where I might need to go into there office once or twice a fortnight which would mean further time away.

Can I just check here, you've got a contract which is 5 days a week but you are talking to another client about another contract that would mean you working a 4 day week?


If I was the client you are currently contracted to, I'd be considering whether I wanted to keep you on!


You have the "right" to go after as much work as you want, as long as you can fulfil the duties expected of you by the contract you are currently in, within the times defined by the contract and expected by the client.
So, if that client's normal office hours are 9-5 M-F, then for you to say 'I'll work from 4pm to 10pm on Tuesdays and I'll do three hours on a Saturday' means that you are not available during their normal office hours.


What is your current relationship like with the client you are contracted to?


You would need to have agreement from them and your agent if you're going to start working elsewhere, and while it might get you extra cash now and make HMRC look on you more positively, it probably isn't a good long-term plan, in my opinion.

[Contreras]

"I won't be in for the next few days - to allow the rest of the team to catch up. You have my number if needed."

[northernladuk]

That's a great deliverable, sitting in a seat for 12 months. "The client is not obliged to supply a seat to be warmed nor is the supplier obliged to warm the seat if it is offered".

Part of the deliverable are the timescales surely?

No one's talking about leaving people in the lurch or expecting to have their workload with additional clients accomodated, it's finding out what the lay of the land is, at some clients it's an easy ride and as long as you deliver you've got additional time in a day. Other places it's a no-no.

Myself, I'm jealous of the opportunity as I'd love to get out of the seat-warming model, so I may be overly optimistic I'll admit, but to the OP good luck, he who dares Rodders, he who dares.

I don't deny that. It would be good and certainly get HMRC off your back to boot. I'm playing devils advocate from the clients perspective and it's all about detail, much of which is missing. Not many of them would share this multi client vision we desire.

[Antman]

That distinction is for HMRC to decide your tax situation so irrelevant in this situation. I see what you mean by deliverables but you could argue if it's stated 5 days per week for a year in your contract that is part of the deliverables. There is also that fact that this is a lovely concept but in 99% of cases the client doesn't understand this.



He is managing it fine while he is there as the client requires. If he can take three weeks off and not impact the client I think the client has planned it very badly. It's one thing having a bit of a slack time but it's another getting a client to plan their work around your extra work activities, particularly if they are going to be ad hoc and at short notice. This is not what as agree in the contract and is highly likely not what the client was expecting. What if it turns out to be more than three weeks, what happens if it's going to be another two weeks shortly after yadda yadda.



I engaged a supplier because of a demand I had and we agreed common terms. If my supplier suddenly rocks up and advises he has other work commitments that will pop up whenever at short notice then he becomes unreliable and huge risk to my project. What if I swallow this and then the other work ramps up? I'm going to be 6 months plus in to a gig that could become critical with a supplier that just buggers off when he feels like it. 2 months is short enough to mitigate the risk by removing that supplier and getting one in that will honour his commitment. I'm not about to start managing him on a day to day basis because of commitments that weren't made clear at the beginning. Pretty clear cut to me.

BTW I've seen contractors binned because the rocked up and slapped holiday requirements on the clients desk in the first week that clash with key dates in the project and he's been walked/chose to walk that day. Is that less? I'd say it's pretty key.

Maybe I'm being a bit tougher than most on this one, there maybe some wiggle room and negotiation but it's most certainly not a given, particularly on the terms the OP is talking about.

That's a great deliverable, sitting in a seat for 12 months. "The client is not obliged to supply a seat to be warmed nor is the supplier obliged to warm the seat if it is offered".
No one's talking about leaving people in the lurch or expecting to have their workload with additional clients accomodated, it's finding out what the lay of the land is, at some clients it's an easy ride and as long as you deliver you've got additional time in a day. Other places it's a no-no.

Myself, I'm jealous of the opportunity as I'd love to get out of the seat-warming model, so I may be overly optimistic I'll admit, but to the OP good luck, he who dares Rodders, he who dares.

[northernladuk]

Disagree. References to 'full-time' 12 month contract would apply to permies not businesses brought in to produce deliverables.

That distinction is for HMRC to decide your tax situation so irrelevant in this situation. I see what you mean by deliverables but you could argue if it's stated 5 days per week for a year in your contract that is part of the deliverables. There is also that fact that this is a lovely concept but in 99% of cases the client doesn't understand this.

If you have the bandwidth to do additional work without it impacting what you deliver then the client shouldn't care. OP said that he is managing current workload fine.

He is managing it fine while he is there as the client requires. If he can take three weeks off and not impact the client I think the client has planned it very badly. It's one thing having a bit of a slack time but it's another getting a client to plan their work around your extra work activities, particularly if they are going to be ad hoc and at short notice. This is not what as agree in the contract and is highly likely not what the client was expecting. What if it turns out to be more than three weeks, what happens if it's going to be another two weeks shortly after yadda yadda.

However that might change as OP said that they are not overly busy at the mo. I think that you need to understand how much you are going to be needed over the coming months and taking it from there.

But walking you off the site because you have another client? LOL, you'll be telling us that you've walked people off for less.

I engaged a supplier because of a demand I had and we agreed common terms. If my supplier suddenly rocks up and advises he has other work commitments that will pop up whenever at short notice then he becomes unreliable and huge risk to my project. What if I swallow this and then the other work ramps up? I'm going to be 6 months plus in to a gig that could become critical with a supplier that just buggers off when he feels like it. 2 months is short enough to mitigate the risk by removing that supplier and getting one in that will honour his commitment. I'm not about to start managing him on a day to day basis because of commitments that weren't made clear at the beginning. Pretty clear cut to me.

BTW I've seen contractors binned because the rocked up and slapped holiday requirements on the clients desk in the first week that clash with key dates in the project and he's been walked/chose to walk that day. Is that less? I'd say it's pretty key.

Maybe I'm being a bit tougher than most on this one, there maybe some wiggle room and negotiation but it's most certainly not a given, particularly on the terms the OP is talking about.

[northernladuk]

Thanks for the advice. I do see your points.

The thing is, I didn't know I would get this much extra work when I started contract.

The projects that I'm working on are a few rather than just one and as I said it's quite slow. I often find myself trying to keep myself busy which is why I said it may not be a problem.

I'm not arguing, just asking but how does this differ from taking a holiday? Is it just the notice?

Nothing has been done yet. Just considering my options.

Would you recommend talking to agency or end client? Obviously the contract is with the agency.

It is but the work delivered and possibly impacted is the clients. Leave the agency out of this for now IMO. Forget the term holiday, that's a permie term. You are unavailable. The reasons don't matter. All that matters is you are unavailable to work for the client for x period.

[tvr450]

I have done it, I had a major programme to write for client number two. I did it in evenings / weekends, but in the end called in sick to client number one for three days to get the work completed.

[Danglekt]

I've done it - but it was a few days, not three weeks.