Reply to: Capita insurances: employers/liability/PI

[TheFaQQer]

Until you have an employee, you do not need EL insurance.

Unless the contract demands it. In which case, you do need to have it.

Whether it has an impact on IR35 or anything else is a moot point - the agency is demanding it so if they won't negotiate you either get it or walk away.

[Elliegirl]

Capita gig's in the public sector are not for the faint hearted.[/QUOTE]


Tell me about it. Two months in and I'm completely convinced I've forgotten something important/signed the wrong forms/going to prison for tax evasion/ etc etc.

It's a great gig but I'm going back to the private sector after this.

[SueEllen]

Utter bulltulip as usual. Until you have an employee, you do not need EL insurance. Just because you have a clause to use a subbie doesnt mean you're an employer.

Not necessarily it depends on the structure of your limited company.

Also the act has the word compulsory in it....

[bracken]

Capita gig's in the public sector are not for the faint hearted.

So so true.

OP - if you haven't done do already, take a good read of the Public Sector Contracting sticky...

[malvolio]

Utter bulltulip as usual. Until you have an employee, you do not need EL insurance. Just because you have a clause to use a subbie doesnt mean you're an employer.

No wonder the PCG ****ed up IR35 \ AWR negotiations.

Go look up the relevant legislation, or ask someone who understands it and try again.

And this is nothing to do with IPSE. Sorry to burst your little bubble.

[BolshieBastard]

If you have a RoS, you can potentially use subbies or even your own employees. If so, you must have ELI, that's the law (albeit one not that many know about). It costs about fourpence, so not worth worrying about, just get it as part of the package.

Utter bulltulip as usual. Until you have an employee, you do not need EL insurance. Just because you have a clause to use a subbie doesnt mean you're an employer.

No wonder the PCG ****ed up IR35 \ AWR negotiations.

[SueEllen]

As for PI, happy to take it, (well, sort of), so won't ask about that

If you buy public liability insurance then you get employers liability insurance thrown in for free.

The reason you need public liability insurance is that some sites - including government ones - have more than one company's workers on them. This includes areas like lobbies, stairs and lifts. So if you accidentally poor coffee over someone, trip someone up, etc then your insurance will pay out.

Also the government at all levels mostly self-insures and their lawyers can be very litigious. This means they will chase you for money however if you have an insurer who has happy to either fight them or pay up you will be left alone.

[tractor]

But the Right implies that you may need to exercise it. If you aren't, why have the Right? Yes they do, if you're using a sub-contractor to substitute for you, as per the contract. You may not if you have sub-contracted some work to them, but that is not what RoS is about So do it anyway and avoid the potential problems

1. Unforeseen circumstances

2. Depends upon the arrangement, if the sub is using their own corporate structure, they will have their own (you would have likely insisted upon it)

3. Given in many circumstances it has no extra cost, can't argue with the JFDI approach.

[malvolio]

• Not intending to sub is not the same as not having the Right to Sub

But the Right implies that you may need to exercise it. If you aren't, why have the Right?

• Not all forms of subbing have ELI as a legal requirement

Yes they do, if you're using a sub-contractor to substitute for you, as per the contract. You may not if you have sub-contracted some work to them, but that is not what RoS is about

• It only take four seconds to put ELI in place if/when you need it

So do it anyway and avoid the potential problems

[Contreras]

Yada yourself. If you are able to use subbies, you need the insurance. Not having it in place means you obviously don't intend using subbies so don't need a RoS which is therefore clearly a tax avoidance sham and so forms no part of your IR35 defence </HMRC>

Try thinking from the other side's perspective occasionally. It's quite enlightening.

Thinking from the other side's perspective, the RoS is clearly not a sham because:

• Not intending to sub is not the same as not having the Right to Sub
• Not all forms of subbing have ELI as a legal requirement
• It only take four seconds to put ELI in place if/when you need it

I accept your point about cost and that is for the consumer to decide. I object to repeated (but so far unsuccessful) attempts to create a contractor myth.

Think about it - not even the IR35 insurers (QDOS, et al.) use your line in marketing their ELI products. They would quite easily do so if it had any basis in fact - and they are the experts.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...abilities.html
http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ce-advice.html
http://forums.contractoruk.com/busin...-ipse-etc.html

[northernladuk]

You had the questions about the (extinct) BETs? Suitably aware of IR35 to know the potential issues and have taken steps to cover yourself Ie. Contract professionaly checked and joined IPSE and or IR35 insurance?

Capita gig's in the public sector are not for the faint hearted.

[tractor]

....

Like all these things that are untested at court, there is no hard and fast answer, only internet experts.

[malvolio]

Yada yada. There is no law to require ELI only if you potentially may use subbies. Not having ELI does not invalidate your RoS. It only takes four seconds to put in place, so not worth worrying about until you need it.

Yada yourself. If you are able to use subbies, you need the insurance. Not having it in place means you obviously don't intend using subbies so don't need a RoS which is therefore clearly a tax avoidance sham and so forms no part of your IR35 defence </HMRC>

Try thinking from the other side's perspective occasionally. It's quite enlightening.

[Contreras]

If you have a RoS, you can potentially use subbies or even your own employees. If so, you must have ELI, that's the law (albeit one not that many know about). It costs about fourpence, so not worth worrying about, just get it as part of the package.

Yada yada. There is no law to require ELI only if you potentially may use subbies. Not having ELI does not invalidate your RoS. It only takes four seconds to put in place, so not worth worrying about until you need it.

[malvolio]

If you have a RoS, you can potentially use subbies or even your own employees. If so, you must have ELI, that's the law (albeit one not that many know about). It costs about fourpence, so not worth worrying about, just get it as part of the package.