Reply to: What would you need to earn to get tempted back to permie land?

[northernladuk]

Yeah, the industry is really struggling. Although the really stupid thing is they keep talking about reducing hours but do not do anything to reduce workload?!?!?!?

Absolutely. Nicky Morgan made a speech about it again this week I believe... and what will happen I wonder..

I wonder how long it's going to be before they start shipping anyone in from abroad to fill the gaps......

[MyUserName]

My other half is a year 6 teacher and deputy head and I find it incredible the amount of work they do. Sadly after 15 years doing it she is at the end of her tether and has had enough. She currently looking at what else she can do with a view to leaving teaching this year. Many others have reached that point bad given up as well despite all these calls for reducing hours etc.

Yeah, the industry is really struggling. Although the really stupid thing is they keep talking about reducing hours but do not do anything to reduce workload?!?!?!?

[northernladuk]

When she was full time she was doing 8-6 each week day and working at home and sometimes weekends too. Apparently primary school is the one with the heaviest workload, no free periods and children require constant attention and everything has to be spelled out very carefully.

She is also meticulous and incredibly thorough with her planning (according to Ofsted) and dyslexic which means she reads and writes slower.

My other half is a year 6 teacher and deputy head and I find it incredible the amount of work they do. Sadly after 15 years doing it she is at the end of her tether and has had enough. She currently looking at what else she can do with a view to leaving teaching this year. Many others have reached that point bad given up as well despite all these calls for reducing hours etc.

[MyUserName]

Certainly different, but 8-6 in a primary school, WTF is that about!!

My missus does 8:45am to 3:45pm, she prefers to do her prep work/marking at home, but never enough that would be the equivalent of 2 hours a day.

When she was full time she was doing 8-6 each week day and working at home and sometimes weekends too. Apparently primary school is the one with the heaviest workload, no free periods and children require constant attention and everything has to be spelled out very carefully.

She is also meticulous and incredibly thorough with her planning (according to Ofsted) and dyslexic which means she reads and writes slower.

[jmo21]

Ah - that is the difference! At primary school things work differently than high school.

There are no free periods and no free staff, they have as many teachers as they need. If you are ill then they have to get a supply teacher in for the day which is expensive and full of hassle, they don't like doing it at all!

She is there from 8 until 6 (although she could normally leave by about 5 if she took the work home) unless something major happens. If she really kicked up a fuss they would probably let her go but it not be forgotten at review time or when dealing out rubbish jobs.

Certainly different, but 8-6 in a primary school, WTF is that about!!

My missus does 8:45am to 3:45pm, she prefers to do her prep work/marking at home, but never enough that would be the equivalent of 2 hours a day.

[MyUserName]

Yes. High school teacher.

You seemed as stunned by my statements as I am by yours, but without a shadow of a doubt, that is what would happen.

In fact, how dare they withhold information from your wife, or not let her go and pick up her unwell child.

Ah - that is the difference! At primary school things work differently than high school.

There are no free periods and no free staff, they have as many teachers as they need. If you are ill then they have to get a supply teacher in for the day which is expensive and full of hassle, they don't like doing it at all!

She is there from 8 until 6 (although she could normally leave by about 5 if she took the work home) unless something major happens. If she really kicked up a fuss they would probably let her go but it not be forgotten at review time or when dealing out rubbish jobs.

[jmo21]

I very much doubt that last paragraph would work in this day and age. If they do they are opening themselves up to a world of problems.

I didn't mean it would work, just that's what would happen. Clearly the class would end up doing next to nothing.

[northernladuk]

there are always teachers on free periods to cover, or a deputy head would do it.

Failing that, the teacher in the next class would tell them to get on with some work while they keep their ears open next door.

I very much doubt that last paragraph would work in this day and age. If they do they are opening themselves up to a world of problems.

[jmo21]

Would agree with MUN. What do they do with the kids? Surely they've got to get someone to cover then....

there are always teachers on free periods to cover, or a deputy head would do it.

Failing that, the teacher in the next class would tell them to get on with some work while they keep their ears open next door.

[jmo21]

Yeh there is that. But in IT I've found things to be a little sexist at times. If you say I've got to shoot off got to sort the kids - sometimes you get a bit of a look as if to say "thats what the mrs is for".

Never encountered that in IT. And frankly if I did, I would ignore any caveman that did try it.

And as a contractor there is definitely less slack I reckon than a permie gets. Most places are ok but then they don't want a contractor to come in, and start having dramas a week later. And as someone said, if you're miles away its not practical and sometimes its a big loss if you're not getting paid.

Also, if you've got a partner who's got an important job (mines a nurse if she goes home then there are consequences for patients due to minimum numbers etc) then sometimes they're employer has got the attitude "can't your partner do it" so theres a conflict there.

Don't know about the rest of you but I try not to get into the position where I'm in line to pick the kids up at x time. Recipe for disaster if it all goes belly up. Last thing you need as a contractor is client standing there flapping and you're thinking "feck got to get this fixed, I've got to get the kids in half an hour". Or worse still leaving client in the tulipe because you've GOT to go. They don't all understand!

All very good points, can't disagree with those.

[jmo21]

So she gets a call about your kid needing a pickup and they will come and find her, give her the message and she can just walk out of the class there and then in the middle of a lesson?

Is she a junior school teacher? There is enough hassle being unwell or not being available for an after school meeting let alone walking out midway through a school day.

Yes. High school teacher.

You seemed as stunned by my statements as I am by yours, but without a shadow of a doubt, that is what would happen.

In fact, how dare they withhold information from your wife, or not let her go and pick up her unwell child.

[WTFH]

Although I do sometimes have concerns that if an employer is breaking the bank to offer what they consider a large salary then they're going to expect a lot.

I've found that a client will pay £300-£400 a day for a contractor no problem and be happy if they do the work and do normal days. Get someone on a salary of £60K and they think they own that employees life.

My stress reduction would be because I wouldn't need to pay for a lawyer to chase payment from an agency.

[psychocandy]

So she gets a call about your kid needing a pickup and they will come and find her, give her the message and she can just walk out of the class there and then in the middle of a lesson?

Is she a junior school teacher? There is enough hassle being unwell or not being available for an after school meeting let alone walking out midway through a school day.

Would agree with MUN. What do they do with the kids? Surely they've got to get someone to cover then....

There are jobs that you can do that - i.e. office based generally but some like teacher, nurse, doctor etc where if you bail its going to cause major hassle.

Emergency is an emergency for any job but then things like kids a bit off then I can see it not being popular.

[MyUserName]

Don't understand that at all.

My missus is a teacher, and is more than happy to leave work to pick up our kids from nursery should they need picking up. Her school have NEVER had a problem with that, much like I would expect no workplace to have an issue with a parent having to do that. Even working as a contractor, I would not expect any of my clients to have an issue if I had to leave to deal with my child (and if they did, tough!)

So struggling to understand that to be honest, especially as you the contractor can lose money if you have to take a half day/work less hours, while a permie teacher would not.

So she gets a call about your kid needing a pickup and they will come and find her, give her the message and she can just walk out of the class there and then in the middle of a lesson?

Is she a junior school teacher? There is enough hassle being unwell or not being available for an after school meeting let alone walking out midway through a school day.

[MicrosoftBob]

Any hole is a goal (using that analogy!)

Caerleons one of the nicer parts....

According to Goldie Lookin Chain