Reply to: IPSE vs QDOS

[malvolio]

A quick google found an accounting firm with a link through with a 15% discount to IPSE+, spo thats not so bad.... poised on the bank details form now....

You can get 15% through CUK as well. Try reading the adverts...

The magic word is "CONTRACTOR16"

[jaffab]

A quick google found an accounting firm with a link through with a 15% discount to IPSE+, spo thats not so bad.... poised on the bank details form now....

[northernladuk]

Plus the thousands in Amazon vouchers you've earned over the years for referrals

I so wish this was the case.



Yet another thing I fail at. I haven't even earned enough to keep my Bieber collection up to date!!

[SlipTheJab]

I can't offer any answers to the questions being posed here and quite frankly I don't think you'll ever get them to any level of satisfaction. I can however offer a solution. Buy both of them.

It's 250 quid(ish) for each... which it isn't really as I saved on the contract review from QDOS and I can potentially make back more than I paid out on the IPSE+ membership on the Advantage scheme, business interruption option and possibly jury service and the others. In a bad year I can make more money having both than not!

For that money and the sheet amount of benefit from both let alone the lack of stress and having to worry about it then getting both is just a no brainer.

If you are confident in what you know as Mal is then don't get both. If you are unsure and are going to spend hours investigating and fretting then get both.

It's as simple as that IMO.

Plus the thousands in Amazon vouchers you've earned over the years for referrals

[Scruff]

I have both QDOS and IPSE+. Peace of mind at ScruffTowers.

I have used QDOS for reviews over the past 3 years for every contract and renewal.

[northernladuk]

I can't offer any answers to the questions being posed here and quite frankly I don't think you'll ever get them to any level of satisfaction. I can however offer a solution. Buy both of them.

It's 250 quid(ish) for each... which it isn't really as I saved on the contract review from QDOS and I can potentially make back more than I paid out on the IPSE+ membership on the Advantage scheme, business interruption option and possibly jury service and the others. In a bad year I can make more money having both than not!

For that money and the sheet amount of benefit from both let alone the lack of stress and having to worry about it then getting both is just a no brainer.

If you are confident in what you know as Mal is then don't get both. If you are unsure and are going to spend hours investigating and fretting then get both.

It's as simple as that IMO.

[malvolio]

So if I can sum things up correctly, the current thinking is (in terms of Hector visits, vat, tax and IR35 only)...

IPSE = IPSE help on tax investigations,
IPSE+ =IPSE help on tax investigations and compliance checks plus cash compensation for tax compliance meetings - but no cover for fines, back tax etc
QDOS TL35 = Free contract reviews, IF (and only if) they are happy are you covered, but if found inside IR35 after review, they cover any tax fines/interest charges

Qs...
1) How many IR35 investigations have IPSE lost (if its none, then why does everybody not just use IPSE, so why is there a TL35 product at all)
2) I read various arguments on other threads about QDOS never actually having paid out on TL35 - is this correct?
3) There was also discussions about QDOS backing out of investigations or asking for more money (between 7.5k to 10k) but IPSE stepping in
4) It would appear QDOS do IR35 contract reviews by IPSE do not - but then, as it seems from other discussions that Hector can ignore contracts and go to the client to ask for actual working practices (in terms of substitution (which has to have actually been invoked rather than just stated) and SDC), maybe the contract review is not so great after all?

Is this correct? Anything I have missed?

My own situation is that I have been a contractor/freelancer for 14 years - no involvement by Hector other than the usual tax code changes and the regular payment of PAYE, divi tax, corp tax, end of year filing etc. But I feel I am due for an audit at some point coming up. My work is 50% freelance (true product development/supply at fixed cost) and 50% contract. 70% of my contracts have been in the public sector (changing to private come Christmas if I can). I want to get some backup should Hector come sniffing, but dont want to pay over the top on things which wont be of any value to me. My own accountant has just started offering (flogging) tax investigation insurance at £115 a year which covers their costs for any investigation, but its all on FreeAgent so anybody could help in an investigation, but their offer got me thinking about some soft of cover to sleep a little better at night.

Go mad. Phone IPSE and QDOS and ask them directly.

As far as I know neither IPSE nor QDOS have lost cases in years. My indifference to TLC35 and IPSE's equivalent (Abbey Tax's Survive 35) stems from that; you are insuring against something that they are convinced won't happen else they won't sell you the insurance.

And as I keep saying it's not all about IR35. There are many other gotchas out there about to bite. We need the widest cover, support and information we can get.

[jaffab]

So if I can sum things up correctly, the current thinking is (in terms of Hector visits, vat, tax and IR35 only)...

IPSE = IPSE help on tax investigations,
IPSE+ =IPSE help on tax investigations and compliance checks plus cash compensation for tax compliance meetings - but no cover for fines, back tax etc
QDOS TL35 = Free contract reviews, IF (and only if) they are happy are you covered, but if found inside IR35 after review, they cover any tax fines/interest charges

Qs...
1) How many IR35 investigations have IPSE lost (if its none, then why does everybody not just use IPSE, so why is there a TL35 product at all)
2) I read various arguments on other threads about QDOS never actually having paid out on TL35 - is this correct?
3) There was also discussions about QDOS backing out of investigations or asking for more money (between 7.5k to 10k) but IPSE stepping in
4) It would appear QDOS do IR35 contract reviews by IPSE do not - but then, as it seems from other discussions that Hector can ignore contracts and go to the client to ask for actual working practices (in terms of substitution (which has to have actually been invoked rather than just stated) and SDC), maybe the contract review is not so great after all?

Is this correct? Anything I have missed?

My own situation is that I have been a contractor/freelancer for 14 years - no involvement by Hector other than the usual tax code changes and the regular payment of PAYE, divi tax, corp tax, end of year filing etc. But I feel I am due for an audit at some point coming up. My work is 50% freelance (true product development/supply at fixed cost) and 50% contract. 70% of my contracts have been in the public sector (changing to private come Christmas if I can). I want to get some backup should Hector come sniffing, but dont want to pay over the top on things which wont be of any value to me. My own accountant has just started offering (flogging) tax investigation insurance at £115 a year which covers their costs for any investigation, but its all on FreeAgent so anybody could help in an investigation, but their offer got me thinking about some soft of cover to sleep a little better at night.

[malvolio]

TLC35 gives you free IR35 reviews, IPSE doesn't offer that

No, although they do offer a pretty comprehensive contract review service. And to be fair, QDOS's reviews aren't actually free either, since you have to buy a potentially unnecessary product (IMVHO, natch...) to get them.

Also, of course, IPSE+ covers a hell of a lot more than IR35.

[Eirikur]

Go with IPSE+. You don't need TLC35 (or Abbey Tax's version available through IPSE, or some other similar products) unless you are very risk averse.

As for "new rules", IR35 legislation hasn't changed, nor has the case law that defines it. All that's changing is that you are being threatened with being paid net of Tax and NICs, which is not what IR35 does anyway.

TLC35 gives you free IR35 reviews, IPSE doesn't offer that

[malvolio]

So having read various threads on insurance, it seems it boils down to QDOS TL35 and IPSE... I am not sure which to go for in terms of tax audit cover and possible IR35 cover.... after all, with the changes coming next year, is that not going to wipe out IR35 investigations (at least, in the public sector).

IS TL35 with standard IPSE the best bet for belt and braces cover, or is this throwing money away?

Go with IPSE+. You don't need TLC35 (or Abbey Tax's version available through IPSE, or some other similar products) unless you are very risk averse.

As for "new rules", IR35 legislation hasn't changed, nor has the case law that defines it. All that's changing is that you are being threatened with being paid net of Tax and NICs, which is not what IR35 does anyway.

[northernladuk]

I thought all the threads you had read go over exactly the question are asking, including this one?

[jaffab]

So having read various threads on insurance, it seems it boils down to QDOS TL35 and IPSE... I am not sure which to go for in terms of tax audit cover and possible IR35 cover.... after all, with the changes coming next year, is that not going to wipe out IR35 investigations (at least, in the public sector).

IS TL35 with standard IPSE the best bet for belt and braces cover, or is this throwing money away?

[MankyManning]

That was my plan. I had to get PCG involved when QDOS gave up too easily and were ready to feed me to the wolves unless I paid £7.5k - £10k for the appeal to the commissioners. (my failing memory used to think £7k but I found the letter from QDOS the other day).

What was the story here?

[psychocandy]

My view on this is that if they accept the case at all (i.e. start fighting it), then I've effectively won given I've got TLC35. They'll either have to see it through to completion, or pay up. There is some clause somewhere about them not accepting a case, but I think they'll find that hard to invoke given they did the contract and working practice review too. And if they do refuse, then I'll head over to IPSE and end up having to pay the back taxes if I lose.

Like I said, even if you had both products, I always thought it was one or the other.

i.e. you cant do that. Start with one, not like it then throw it to the other one...

Can't imagine QDOS paying out for example. You start off with IPSE, they make decisions do things, lose the case. Surely then QDOS are not going to say, OK we'll pick it up now, OK we'll pay the fines etc? They are going to say, sorry, we didnt get chance to deal from the start so all bets are off.