Reply to: Agents' reactions to QDOS contract review failures

[Gumbo Robot]

Yep - it's on their website, even on the £40 review:



(my emphasis)

That's good to know for future reference.

[TheFaQQer]

Do they? I seem to have been acting as go-between on this one.

Anyhow - contract finally okayed after a few amendments & I start tomorrow....

Yep - it's on their website, even on the £40 review:

Should a contract be deemed to be a fail, we will highlight the points that need to be amended, or suggest clauses that could be added to the contract. As part of our service, we will happily re-assess your contract for you once the amendments /additions have been made to the contract. We will also liaise directly with the agency should you require us to.

(my emphasis)

[Gumbo Robot]

And since Qdos will negotiate with the agency for you, then why not ask them what to do next?

Do they? I seem to have been acting as go-between on this one.

Anyhow - contract finally okayed after a few amendments & I start tomorrow....

[TheFaQQer]

You are highlighting the wrong issue:
Are the fail points negotiable? If yes negotiate and get it blessed by QDOS.
If not, move on or get it reviewed by another body.

And since Qdos will negotiate with the agency for you, then why not ask them what to do next?

[BolshieBastard]

Although I always have my contracts reviewed, the review if a pass is not necessarily the golden bullet a lot of people seem to think.

Its the reviewer's opinion on the contract clauses and working practices. It gives us confidence but it doesnt mean hmrc will see it that way if they get their grubby hands on it.

If the contract has failed, you need to know on what points and get the reviewing organisation to negotiate on your behalf. This is why I use Bauer & Cottrell. Then, you need to make sure your working practices keep you onside.

[Taita]

Just had QDOS fail a contract.

Went back to the agent & he said something along the lines of "that's very unusual as we've had our contracts okayed by QDOS before".

I've heard this before from another agent when the contract failed.

The insinuation is that the different people who review contracts at QDOS are not necessarily "on the same page" so what would pass with one reviewer wouldn't necessarily pass with another.

Is there any truth in this?

You are highlighting the wrong issue:
Are the fail points negotiable? If yes negotiate and get it blessed by QDOS.
If not, move on or get it reviewed by another body.

[psychocandy]

Just had QDOS fail a contract.

Went back to the agent & he said something along the lines of "that's very unusual as we've had our contracts okayed by QDOS before".

I've heard this before from another agent when the contract failed.

The insinuation is that the different people who review contracts at QDOS are not necessarily "on the same page" so what would pass with one reviewer wouldn't necessarily pass with another.

Is there any truth in this?

Nope they always say this.

Same as they'll say every other contractor we work with signs the opt out honestly. You're the only one.

And no other contractor minds 120 day payment terms honestly.

And yes of course we need 2 references before submit your CV. No-one else has ever minded doing this.

[expat]

There may be several factors, not all necessarily down to the reviewer. For example, I have recently completed a contract Of almost 2 years, where a well-known reviewer other than QDOS unfortunately found me probably inside IR35. My 2 colleagues were staggered at this; both had been found by the same reviewing company to be outside IR35.

My reviewer wanted to talk to my colleagues in order to find out where the difference lay, but we couldn't do that: obviously I wouldn't name my colleagues without their permission, and they understandably had no great enthusiasm for revisiting an "outside IR35" review.

But we speculated that the difference came from my/our responses that were not set in stone. For example, "does the client have permanent staff who could perform the same tasks?" I automatically answered yes to that: it is not conceivable that a huge vendor does not have my skills in-house. Maybe not enough good people with them, hence they need contractors; but IMO that is not what was asked. However my colleagues may well have answered no to that, reasonably in their minds since if the client really had their skills on tap, they wouldn't have needed the contractors.

[jamesbrown]

Just had QDOS fail a contract.

Went back to the agent & he said something along the lines of "that's very unusual as we've had our contracts okayed by QDOS before".

I've heard this before from another agent when the contract failed.

The insinuation is that the different people who review contracts at QDOS are not necessarily "on the same page" so what would pass with one reviewer wouldn't necessarily pass with another.

Is there any truth in this?

Yes, this is absolutely possible, as there's a degree of subjectivity in determining status and pass/fail is a crude filter, particularly for a borderline case (which is more dependent upon the risk tolerance of an individual reviewer). Of course, it's also possible that one or both reviewers did a bad job, but the former is more likely.

[aoxomoxoa]

Use your own contract?

They have a standard contract for associates which I'm hoping we can tailor. They understand the issues from an IR35 perspective so I'm optimistic.

[TheFaQQer]

I'm going back to my client (actually a consultancy for whom I'm working as an associate) to see what we can do for the next piece of work I do for them.

Use your own contract?

[FatLazyContractor]

I've had the exact same contract passed by one of QDOS's reviewers and failed by another..

What was the gap in time between these two reviews?
I would be worried if they don't factor-in the recent HMRC nonsense in the review. They are meant to be the experts who know a thing or two about contracts inside IR35.

Obviously I queried this, not least because I've been working for some significant time on the version that passed, and was told they're now beefing up their criteria for passing a contract in the light of updated opinions/guidance from HMRC.

That is reassuring. If they have updated their criteria, I will continue to use them for my next contract.

[aoxomoxoa]

Just had QDOS fail a contract.

Went back to the agent & he said something along the lines of "that's very unusual as we've had our contracts okayed by QDOS before".

I've heard this before from another agent when the contract failed.

The insinuation is that the different people who review contracts at QDOS are not necessarily "on the same page" so what would pass with one reviewer wouldn't necessarily pass with another.

Is there any truth in this?

I've had the exact same contract passed by one of QDOS's reviewers and failed by another. Obviously I queried this, not least because I've been working for some significant time on the version that passed, and was told they're now beefing up their criteria for passing a contract in the light of updated opinions/guidance from HMRC. No way of knowing how true this is, but I'm going back to my client (actually a consultancy for whom I'm working as an associate) to see what we can do for the next piece of work I do for them.

[NickNick]

With something like law you're always going to get a difference of opinion, otherwise OJ Simpson would've been represented by the Legal Aid bloke.

And not Kim Kardashian's dad.

[PerfectStorm]

With something like law you're always going to get a difference of opinion, otherwise OJ Simpson would've been represented by the Legal Aid bloke.