Reply to: Notice period - wondering if I should negotiate down.

[SussexSeagull]

We do seem to repeat this conversation every few months but I don't understand why anyone would go into a contract without the default position they are going to finish it.

That said if there is a notice period in a contract and either side exercises it then that is business.

[AnthonyQuinn]

I've landed a new contract offer - great role, 6 months, contract looking positive so far (in review) from IR35 perspective.

The only gripe I have is the notice period I have to give the client: 1 month. I'm wondering if, and how to, negotiate this down to 1 week. The reason for this is being able to jump if the contract is rubbish. Having a 1 month notice period basically means it will be nigh on impossible to jump to another contract once I'm in, and that's a problem for me. I guess in my mind one of the things that attracted me to contracting is freedom of movement, and shorter notice periods compared to permies.

It could be that the client has accidentally left this in from a longer term contract, or it could be intentional.

It could be that I can get this down to 1 week without a problem, considering I've been offered the position and we've targeted a start date.

I'm considering a compromise suggestion if needed - maybe 2 weeks.

Experiences? Opinions? This would be my 2nd contract so I'm not sure how typical 1 week's notice is, but for some reason I've got it lodged in my head that 1 week is fairly typical?

1 week?? really? are you a serious professional?? If I was the hiring manager I would terminate your contract straightaway if asked. A contract is generally meant to be seen through to the end date. The notice period is for exceptions. Not for you to be looking out 'in case the contract is crap'?? You haven't even built any credibility at the new client and want to start by pissing them off?

[Ticktock]

And what if the contract says "To turn up each day and do software development to support the xxx project" ?

Is that any different? Very often, statements of work within contracts are indeed as vague as this as many clients don't really know *exactly* what needs to be done at the start of the project and thus can't ever give you a truly comprehensive and detailed statement of work or exact set of deliverables.

If your contract says that then you have bigger worries.

If, however, it said "to provide software development services to support xxx project" then you have accepted work defined as "development work", as long as it is to support the xxx project. Therefore, lack of MoO does not allow you to say "I don't want to do any more dev work on this project".
Lack of MoO allows you to turn down non-dev work to support that project, or to turn down work on other projects. In reality, the clause is intended to stop situations where the xxx project is completed and you say "I have 3 months left on my contract so you have to keep paying me and give me another project", or the xxx project is completed and the client saying "you have 3 months left on your contract so you have to stay here and we'll put you on another project".

They are allowed to offer extra work, you are allowed to accept extra work. Neither side can demand or oblige extra work.

[billybiro]

Normally it would at least say something about provide whatever service "to support the xxx project", wouldn't it?
In that case the different activities being completed to support that project are one piece of work in terms or what you've accepted in your contract.

If your contract simply says "To turn up each day and do software development" then you're a bum on seat at best, and a disguised employee at worst.

And what if the contract says "To turn up each day and do software development to support the xxx project" ?

Is that any different? Very often, statements of work within contracts are indeed as vague as this as many clients don't really know *exactly* what needs to be done at the start of the project and thus can't ever give you a truly comprehensive and detailed statement of work or exact set of deliverables.

[CoolCat]

A few times when I have been worried about the client I have asked for one days notice, on both sides. And got it no problem. In these cases all turned out ok and I was there till the end of the contract anyways.

[oracleslave]

Also 'done thing' around here seems to be never enacting your notice, instead switching at contract end (and declining renewal)

Well, I handed mine in 2 weeks ago. 9 working days until I am outta here. It's a business relationship, not a prison sentence in my view and if you want to move on then you should be free to.

[PerfectStorm]

Normally it would at least say something about provide whatever service "to support the xxx project", wouldn't it?
In that case the different activities being completed to support that project are one piece of work in terms or what you've accepted in your contract.

Ah yes, it does.

Phew

[Ticktock]

How many people on here have strict statements of work/deliverables in their contracts? Most contractors I know are just there to do whatever comes along during the duration of their contracts.

Normally it would at least say something about provide whatever service "to support the xxx project", wouldn't it?
In that case the different activities being completed to support that project are one piece of work in terms or what you've accepted in your contract.

If your contract simply says "To turn up each day and do software development" then you're a bum on seat at best, and a disguised employee at worst.

[alluvial]

If the contract is short (three months) then lack of a notice period doesn't bother me. I've only had one lengthy contract where I had no right to give notice (non-negotiable). Due to the economic climate at the time I took it and regretted it very shortly after starting.
Current contract has a one month notice period both ways, this is fine by me.
Trouble with one week notice periods is that it will probably work both ways and means you can be out on your arise very shortly whereas with a month, you have time to sort out the next gig.

[PerfectStorm]

Lack of MoO does not mean being able to say "I'm not going to carry on doing this work I've already accepted".
It means being able to say "Now that I've completed that work I accepted I'm not going to accept that new piece of work you're offering me".

What constitutes a new piece of work vs more steps in an already accepted piece of work will depend on your contract. However, if, for example, you're a Tester and you say "I finished that first test, but that second test constitutes a new piece of work" then IMO you're very close to being under D&C. Compared with you as a Tester saying "I've completed all of the testing for the project that I was contracted for, but this new project wasn't mentioned in the contract so is a new piece of work".

How many people on here have strict statements of work/deliverables in their contracts? Most contractors I know are just there to do whatever comes along during the duration of their contracts.

[PerfectStorm]

Notice period - wondering if I should negotiate down.

Get enough money behind you that it won't make a difference.

Also 'done thing' around here seems to be never enacting your notice, instead switching at contract end (and declining renewal)

[Mincepie]

In my time contracting i have had either 2 weeks or 4 weeks notice. Never had no notice period meaning you have to stay until the end, that would concern me in case it was crap

[gables]

Hmm, it's quite interesting reading these responses.. my current contract (PS) has a 2 week notice period (both ways). Also, when I contracted previously (1993-2002) all my contracts had a notice period I could give, and if memory serves it was variable between 1 - 4 weeks.

So is it 'normal' nowadays for there to be no notice period a contractor can give?

[Ticktock]

Can't you just exercise the clause for MOO and just not accept the work in the final x weeks and therefore your notice period is as short as you want?

Lack of MoO does not mean being able to say "I'm not going to carry on doing this work I've already accepted".
It means being able to say "Now that I've completed that work I accepted I'm not going to accept that new piece of work you're offering me".

What constitutes a new piece of work vs more steps in an already accepted piece of work will depend on your contract. However, if, for example, you're a Tester and you say "I finished that first test, but that second test constitutes a new piece of work" then IMO you're very close to being under D&C. Compared with you as a Tester saying "I've completed all of the testing for the project that I was contracted for, but this new project wasn't mentioned in the contract so is a new piece of work".

[FatLazyContractor]

You'll be fine if they sue you for breach you can prove that you were sick so couldn't work, and it was unfeasible to provide a replacement at short notice, and so Force Majeur applies.

One would be tempted to send Unix as a substitute ....