Reply to: Background check / unemployment check

[djf]

I just went through this getting my last contract

Basically I had been self-employed for the previous three years writing Mobile Apps. It took about seven weeks trying to prove that I'd not been "up to no good" and in the UK. It went something like this:-

1. Name of employers and dates for past three years? Err I was self-employed.
2. Name my accountant ... to which I pointed out that I didn't use a an accountant
3. Not having an accountant they want to look at my incorporation documents to which I replied that I wasn't incorporated but was self-employed.
4. In that case they wanted details of my business solicitors or lawyer - yep not needed any of those.
5. Doctors, Priests came next WTF!
6. Then they asked for my business Bank Account ... however Google, Apple and Amazon just paid directly into my personal bank account.
7. Next came a request for a list of "clients" ... to which I point out that my "clients" are individual *customers* who bought a £5 program off their phone and I was only provided with partial address (Basically a postcode and country) and no name. I'm not sure how much of a references I'd have got from one of my customers even if I had a full name and address.
7. Next I had to send a letter off to HMRC asking them to send a letter to myself and the agency stating that I've been self-employed since I left my previous job - yep you've guessed it, we had to give up on HMRC because they hadn't responded after 6 weeks ... I did eventually get a response saying sorry it took so long (It took nearly 3 months for a response) and that they can confirm I'd been registered as self-employed.

I eventually managed to get them to take a reference from a long time personal friend who was a head of directorate at the local county council - and that was touch and go because he had retired (they really wanted someone who was in employment). As he had retired, he had lapsed his membership of the professional association he was in and it turned out the agency really wanted someone with letters after their name.

The stupid thing is that if I had registered as unemployed for the previous three years (I was writing Apps and wasn't looking for another job), then they would have been happy with a letter from the unemployment office. No doubt they would have been happy with a letter from the prison governor if I'd been in the nick. They just seemed to be trying to prove that I had been in the UK.

Incidentally, If I had have been up to no good, been a terrorists or had been untrustworthy then I would have had no problems finding references - hell I'm offered 5* reviews, xxx number of Facebook likes, yyy number of twitter followers (etc.) from various companies in the east weekly - I'm sure they would have been more than happy to provide references.

So there you have it, a UK based self-employed developer with 30+ years experience has a lower status in society than a loafer or criminal.

Strangely as I write this I realise I should have just told them to get stuffed.

[SueEllen]

If the auditors have been called into a bank & or its part state owned like RBS/Lloyds perhaps you will need to go through all of this but most of the other FCA regulated financial services companies take you on face value most of the time the agent will just file your references where the sun nevers shines how many of them would stop you starting a contract you just won in a highly competitve field just because someone would not give you a reference as they do not wish to break their internal company policy on not giving personal references

Sorry you are an idiot if you haven't realised within the last 10 years that unless someone runs the company or is another contractor they aren't allowed to give you personal reference vouching that you worked at a particular company. Companies have been sued and had to pay out damages due to employees doing just that. All companies will do is confirm the dates.

IMO no longer work with agencies who insist on these checks a lot of the checking is not even very thorough you give them the info they do not double check just file it away mate of mine forged something to cover a 1 month gap they did not bother checking he has been there several years last time I checked in with him everything was going better than ever.

Last time I was checked I pointed this out and the person collecting the details agreed with me. Anyway I got around it as I wrote a statement covering all my "gaps" pointing out that as I was on PAYE I wasn't unemployed and so had no gaps which the accountants I used could confirm.

I think they just want you to state that you aren't a terrorist or waiting on bail, which if you were you wouldn't state anyway.....

[BolshieBastard]

Its just getting silly now. I will be working for the same company i worked for last year but through a different supplier. This time they wont accept what the accepte dthe last time, basically a letter from a lawyer saying 'yep, he was unemployed'. So meantime, I'm getting paid to play angry birds and walk the dog as i cant get access to do my job. Ultimately , these background checks are an FCA requirement. What happens though , is that underperforming staff are allocated the task of collating the information and from what i can see so far, I wouldnt have faith in them to clean my toilets. Somethings gone far wrong in IT over the last few years. Far wrong.

Yep, welcome to the club!

[uk contractor]

Its just getting silly now. I will be working for the same company i worked for last year but through a different supplier. This time they wont accept what the accepte dthe last time, basically a letter from a lawyer saying 'yep, he was unemployed'. So meantime, I'm getting paid to play angry birds and walk the dog as i cant get access to do my job. Ultimately , these background checks are an FCA requirement. What happens though , is that underperforming staff are allocated the task of collating the information and from what i can see so far, I wouldnt have faith in them to clean my toilets. Somethings gone far wrong in IT over the last few years. Far wrong.

If your only a contractor not an IT director & or in another very senior position FCA requirement is BS a lot of the time. I have worked at many different banks most do not bother with these futile checks. I am not going to name those banks but they are some of the biggest names you would have heard of them.

If the auditors have been called into a bank & or its part state owned like RBS/Lloyds perhaps you will need to go through all of this but most of the other FCA regulated financial services companies take you on face value most of the time the agent will just file your references where the sun nevers shines how many of them would stop you starting a contract you just won in a highly competitve field just because someone would not give you a reference as they do not wish to break their internal company policy on not giving personal references

IMO no longer work with agencies who insist on these checks a lot of the checking is not even very thorough you give them the info they do not double check just file it away mate of mine forged something to cover a 1 month gap they did not bother checking he has been there several years last time I checked in with him everything was going better than ever.

Police & Credit reference checks will demonstrate your character & should be more than enough if its not then move onto another opportunity

[Tummy]

...

Its just getting silly now. I will be working for the same company i worked for last year but through a different supplier. This time they wont accept what the accepte dthe last time, basically a letter from a lawyer saying 'yep, he was unemployed'. So meantime, I'm getting paid to play angry birds and walk the dog as i cant get access to do my job. Ultimately , these background checks are an FCA requirement. What happens though , is that underperforming staff are allocated the task of collating the information and from what i can see so far, I wouldnt have faith in them to clean my toilets. Somethings gone far wrong in IT over the last few years. Far wrong.

[SueEllen]

Wow, ridiculous and surprising some of the stories here about history checking. One of the primary reasons I chose to be an IT contractor was so that I could multi-task more, i.e. spend time doing things that aren't related to IT or the corporate world. This financial year I have worked about 6 months (out of choice), last fin yr I did 8 months (again out of choice).

Unless you're a really good friend of mine or my spouse it's none of your business what I was doing with my life those other months. It seems a gross invasion of privacy (I am fine with "standard" CRB or Credit Checks).

Those checks are just to tick boxes they don't prove anything and they also don't actually ask do you know what the person was doing. They just ask you to confirm the person as far as you are aware wasn't up to something dodgy. You may not be aware that on a few occasions people ask others for references and they don't answer the reference seeker - this is the standard legal response when you can't give a satisfactory reference about someone.


Plus it's up to you, the person being referenced, to state to the agency that you were employed by the limited you work through and your accountant can prove this as you had a pay roll running.

Also when I was permie I had to be personally referenced as well as professionally referenced for a role because I had a missing few months e.g. gaps between university and work, gaps on my electoral roll registration.

What amused me was that as a 20-something year old I could get a couple of my 20-something year old mates to provide the reference. The only thing they had to do was state they had known me for over 5 years. While I was tempted to choose random people I choose those who sounded more respectable.

[cerrone]

Instead of starting a new thread, i thought i'd tag on to the bottom of this one, it seems relevant and i couldn't find anything using search

So, I've been contracting for the last 4 or 5 years for the same Co, through the same Agency with breaks inbetween (sometimes a week sometimes 3 months).
Everytime I receive a new offer I have to go through the same background checks, employment history, basic CRB, address history, utility bills.. etc.etc. and everytime i say to them, you already have all these details, I've been with your Agency for the last 4/5 years...
Is it just me or do any of you get this?

cheers
(please move to a new topic if it's not relevant to this thread ta)!

[northernladuk]

Wow, ridiculous and surprising some of the stories here about history checking. One of the primary reasons I chose to be an IT contractor was so that I could multi-task more, i.e. spend time doing things that aren't related to IT or the corporate world. This financial year I have worked about 6 months (out of choice), last fin yr I did 8 months (again out of choice).

I would hardly say it's ridiculous. Much of it is legislation, others is just based on risk. Not many banks can say they haven't been a victim of theft from insiders working for them for example.

Unless you're a really good friend of mine or my spouse it's none of your business what I was doing with my life those other months. It seems a gross invasion of privacy (I am fine with "standard" CRB or Credit Checks).

Suit yourself.

I wouldn't pursue any of those contract opportunities quoted on this thread - the moment you're asking about the rest of my life I'll drop you and look for something else, thank you very much. Preferably this happens after I've impressed the client at interview: we'll see then about how everyone feels about losing a quality resource working on their project.

It many cases you will be told up front and in others you will be expected to use some common sense and know that a financial organisation will need checks and defence will need vetting to some level etc.

And losing a quality resource? They won't bat an eyelid because regardless of your quality you are a risk to them and that trumps everything.

[theroyale]

Wow, ridiculous and surprising some of the stories here about history checking. One of the primary reasons I chose to be an IT contractor was so that I could multi-task more, i.e. spend time doing things that aren't related to IT or the corporate world. This financial year I have worked about 6 months (out of choice), last fin yr I did 8 months (again out of choice).

Unless you're a really good friend of mine or my spouse it's none of your business what I was doing with my life those other months. It seems a gross invasion of privacy (I am fine with "standard" CRB or Credit Checks).

I wouldn't pursue any of those contract opportunities quoted on this thread - the moment you're asking about the rest of my life I'll drop you and look for something else, thank you very much. Preferably this happens after I've impressed the client at interview: we'll see then about how everyone feels about losing a quality resource working on their project.

[uk contractor]

Going through this BS now for several roles not sure I will pass all of it either so have backup contracts I am working on as well. I cannot prove a few months here & there 5 years ago what I did for a few months between roles on the bench if they really insist on that they have wasted their time with me its so OTT. For MOD, Government or NHS perhaps surely Police & Credit Checks are good enough & demonstrate sound character & no prison time.

These checks are getting ridiculous not sure its the clients either think its more like some of the larger agencies want to cover themselves. I have worked at many banks as a contractor most do not bother with references they just hire you as they find you some will take a credit check or police check but thats about it as personal references are worthless & a lot of HR will not confirm contractor details anyway anymore.

When you hear in the national news today an extremist jihadi parent is working at the MOD post office it makes you realise how pointless these checks can be

[Eirikur]

The most annoying thing with these checks are the personal references. Except from annoying your mates what purpose do they serve?
Every time this happened, I supplied the answer to the reference questions myself to the person providing the personal reference.

[old chad]

Just had the list of required references come through for I new job I got. 10 years of agency (not client) references plus 5 years of unbroken refernces, no any breaks in contract need to be backed up by accountant of benefits office references! I didn't need that detail for my SC clearance!
Didn't manage to put down all the details they want so waiting to see if it is acceptable to the client, not holding my breath.

[FatLazyContractor]

I'd have no second thoughts to ask them if they really understand what contracting means and how it works.

Tough luck, I won't do business with such idiots.

[Eirikur]

The agent? or the Client?

The agency that did the checking on behalf of the recruitment agency

[FatLazyContractor]

Not just for permies had two of these for contracts in the last two years. It was easy to modify the dates on an airline e-ticket, which now "proved" I was on a vacation during a 6 weeks period with no contract. (they didn't accept the fact I was employed through my own limited company)

The agent? or the Client?